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	<title>Comments on: Unashamed Social Engineering</title>
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	<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2010/01/13/unashamed-social-engineering/</link>
	<description>Bill Muehlenberg&#039;s commentary on issues of the day...</description>
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		<title>By: Peter Rice</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2010/01/13/unashamed-social-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-170290</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Rice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 19:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2274#comment-170290</guid>
		<description>I feel that we should all know the names of the pollies who voted-in this Bill and this information should be available before the next election so voters can make up their minds who should represent their electorates on such matters. This might be one way of overcoming the secret manner in which this kind of social engineering can take place.
Peter Rice</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel that we should all know the names of the pollies who voted-in this Bill and this information should be available before the next election so voters can make up their minds who should represent their electorates on such matters. This might be one way of overcoming the secret manner in which this kind of social engineering can take place.<br />
Peter Rice</p>
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		<title>By: david skinner</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2010/01/13/unashamed-social-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-169007</link>
		<dc:creator>david skinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 08:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2274#comment-169007</guid>
		<description>Carolyn, the question is if a man can trans into a woman can the woman who has sex with a fence, trans into a fence and vice versa? Or for that matter a woman trans into a horse and a horse into a woman? Surely it is easier for a person to trans from homosexuality to heterosexuality than from being male to female, yet the homosexual, whilst claiming that homosexuality is immutable, accepts that it is possible to transgender. 

I identify myself as a welsh cross dresser transing into a lesbian poached egg. This is my human right 

David Skinner, UK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carolyn, the question is if a man can trans into a woman can the woman who has sex with a fence, trans into a fence and vice versa? Or for that matter a woman trans into a horse and a horse into a woman? Surely it is easier for a person to trans from homosexuality to heterosexuality than from being male to female, yet the homosexual, whilst claiming that homosexuality is immutable, accepts that it is possible to transgender. </p>
<p>I identify myself as a welsh cross dresser transing into a lesbian poached egg. This is my human right </p>
<p>David Skinner, UK</p>
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		<title>By: Carolyn Mongan</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2010/01/13/unashamed-social-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-168817</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn Mongan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2274#comment-168817</guid>
		<description>As an ACT resident, I am only irritated that the 2004 introduction of same-sex adoption in the ACT, together with the amendment of about 70 other Acts did not attract the much attention.  ACT legislation under the Stanhope government should sound the warning tocsin for the rest of the nation.

All government legislation, forms and documents have had words such as Mother, Father and Spouse removed; being replaced with Domestic Partner.

A mother who relinquishes her child for adoption can specify the religion of the adopting couple, but not the sexual preferences.

The use of facilities for the opposite sex at public baths in the ACT is no longer an offence, consequently the penalty was also removed.

What I have mentioned is just the &#039;tip of the iceberg&#039;.

Carolyn Mongan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an ACT resident, I am only irritated that the 2004 introduction of same-sex adoption in the ACT, together with the amendment of about 70 other Acts did not attract the much attention.  ACT legislation under the Stanhope government should sound the warning tocsin for the rest of the nation.</p>
<p>All government legislation, forms and documents have had words such as Mother, Father and Spouse removed; being replaced with Domestic Partner.</p>
<p>A mother who relinquishes her child for adoption can specify the religion of the adopting couple, but not the sexual preferences.</p>
<p>The use of facilities for the opposite sex at public baths in the ACT is no longer an offence, consequently the penalty was also removed.</p>
<p>What I have mentioned is just the &#8216;tip of the iceberg&#8217;.</p>
<p>Carolyn Mongan</p>
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		<title>By: David Skinner</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2010/01/13/unashamed-social-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-168780</link>
		<dc:creator>David Skinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 04:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2274#comment-168780</guid>
		<description>In 2004, as casual teacher in the UK, I was asked to do a sex education lesson and to give out glossy little booklets to 13 year old boys and girls in a state school, in Dorset. Little did I realise at the time that these booklet were and are still supplied by the Family Planning Association that receives millions of pounds from the government. Below is an  extract taken from “Is EveryBody Doing It? Your Guide to Contraception.” 

page 15, TRUE STORIES
“My boyfriend wanted me to keep the baby, but my mum said that I was too young to settle down. Luckily I went to young people’s clinic and the counsellor helped me to think through how I felt and what I wanted Part of me did WANT the baby, but mainly to show my mum that I was grown up. I had an abortion because I didn’t think I should have a child until I could look after myself better. I think being a mother is just too important for it be something that just happens to you “
SHONA 17

David Skinner, UK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 2004, as casual teacher in the UK, I was asked to do a sex education lesson and to give out glossy little booklets to 13 year old boys and girls in a state school, in Dorset. Little did I realise at the time that these booklet were and are still supplied by the Family Planning Association that receives millions of pounds from the government. Below is an  extract taken from “Is EveryBody Doing It? Your Guide to Contraception.” </p>
<p>page 15, TRUE STORIES<br />
“My boyfriend wanted me to keep the baby, but my mum said that I was too young to settle down. Luckily I went to young people’s clinic and the counsellor helped me to think through how I felt and what I wanted Part of me did WANT the baby, but mainly to show my mum that I was grown up. I had an abortion because I didn’t think I should have a child until I could look after myself better. I think being a mother is just too important for it be something that just happens to you “<br />
SHONA 17</p>
<p>David Skinner, UK</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Marks</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2010/01/13/unashamed-social-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-168779</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 04:05:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2274#comment-168779</guid>
		<description>Just a few thoughts. I believe that deliberately bringing a child into the world without a father is legalised child abuse. I wrote to every MP more than once to express this sentiment under the banner of STOPCAN (Stop Child Abuse Now). Any one is welcome to protect children under its banner. 

When ever I attend a medical appointment, I am asked do I have any history in the famly of this problem. My answer is always &quot;I don&#039;t know, I was adopted.&quot;

I have read many times that the world is a reflection of the church. Bearing in mind what the world is like at the moment, we are in a total mess because the leadership has lost the plot as in Jesus was loving and accepting so its OK to ordain practicing homosexuals.

Another aspect is that doing the same thing every week and expecting a different result is insanity. There a very few churches that don&#039;t do the same thing every week so it becomes a closed shop to those who are not interested in self serving banality. 

Even the evangelical/pentecostal expression is up the creek without a paddle because their main focus is themselves and that is anathama to God. 

Why do I say that? Because 95% of church income is spent on themselves. In the NT church, income was spent on others who had needs and evangelism. 

Finally in defense of the church, it has been said time and time again we have nothing to worry about because God is still in charge and he will win in the end and his church will be triumphant. 

I agree totally with that sentiment, but putting up a building, employing someone to run the organisation so we don&#039;t have to get too committed, raising a cheer squad that will be entertained by a regular few every Sunday morning does not make you a church.

A church is where two or three gather in His name, have died to self, take up their cross daily and are committed to the kingdom of God regardless of the consequences. It is organic, not organised. The guy in charge is Jesus himself and the chief operating officer is the Holy Spirit. 

How many so called churches operate like this? If they don&#039;t, they are not the church so don&#039;t put your hopes in a failed system.

Roger Marks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a few thoughts. I believe that deliberately bringing a child into the world without a father is legalised child abuse. I wrote to every MP more than once to express this sentiment under the banner of STOPCAN (Stop Child Abuse Now). Any one is welcome to protect children under its banner. </p>
<p>When ever I attend a medical appointment, I am asked do I have any history in the famly of this problem. My answer is always &#8220;I don&#8217;t know, I was adopted.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have read many times that the world is a reflection of the church. Bearing in mind what the world is like at the moment, we are in a total mess because the leadership has lost the plot as in Jesus was loving and accepting so its OK to ordain practicing homosexuals.</p>
<p>Another aspect is that doing the same thing every week and expecting a different result is insanity. There a very few churches that don&#8217;t do the same thing every week so it becomes a closed shop to those who are not interested in self serving banality. </p>
<p>Even the evangelical/pentecostal expression is up the creek without a paddle because their main focus is themselves and that is anathama to God. </p>
<p>Why do I say that? Because 95% of church income is spent on themselves. In the NT church, income was spent on others who had needs and evangelism. </p>
<p>Finally in defense of the church, it has been said time and time again we have nothing to worry about because God is still in charge and he will win in the end and his church will be triumphant. </p>
<p>I agree totally with that sentiment, but putting up a building, employing someone to run the organisation so we don&#8217;t have to get too committed, raising a cheer squad that will be entertained by a regular few every Sunday morning does not make you a church.</p>
<p>A church is where two or three gather in His name, have died to self, take up their cross daily and are committed to the kingdom of God regardless of the consequences. It is organic, not organised. The guy in charge is Jesus himself and the chief operating officer is the Holy Spirit. </p>
<p>How many so called churches operate like this? If they don&#8217;t, they are not the church so don&#8217;t put your hopes in a failed system.</p>
<p>Roger Marks</p>
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		<title>By: David Skinner</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2010/01/13/unashamed-social-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-168776</link>
		<dc:creator>David Skinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 04:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2274#comment-168776</guid>
		<description>“I’m not in favour of gay couples seeking to adopt children because I question whether that is the right start in life. We should not see children as trophies. Children, in my judgement, and I think it’s the judgement of almost everyone including single parents, are best brought up where you have two natural parents in a stable relationship. There’s no question about that. What we know from the evidence is that, generally speaking, that stability is more likely to occur where the parents are married than where they are not.”

This, by any current standards, would be deemed to be an offensive and homophobic statement. But who said it? None other than the present UK Lord Chancellor and Secretary of Statement for Justice, Jack Straw, back in 1998 on the BBC Today programme.

Obviously he was not on the same page as the Marxist and anarchist moles burrowing quietly but oh so determinedly at the heart of Tony Blair’s government. But he soon caught up with the rest of them and sold his soul for a bowl of pottage. A man of Straw indeed. 

Tony Blair’s election slogan back in 1997 was Education Education Education. The populace naively thought he was talking about improving literacy and numeracy whilst all the time he was talking about Marxist re-education. 

If there are any readers here with UK passports please sign the petition before Britain completely capsizes: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/harryhammond/ 

Anglican Mainstream has also posted my petition which can be read more fully here: http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/?p=20848#more-20848

David Skinner, UK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“I’m not in favour of gay couples seeking to adopt children because I question whether that is the right start in life. We should not see children as trophies. Children, in my judgement, and I think it’s the judgement of almost everyone including single parents, are best brought up where you have two natural parents in a stable relationship. There’s no question about that. What we know from the evidence is that, generally speaking, that stability is more likely to occur where the parents are married than where they are not.”</p>
<p>This, by any current standards, would be deemed to be an offensive and homophobic statement. But who said it? None other than the present UK Lord Chancellor and Secretary of Statement for Justice, Jack Straw, back in 1998 on the BBC Today programme.</p>
<p>Obviously he was not on the same page as the Marxist and anarchist moles burrowing quietly but oh so determinedly at the heart of Tony Blair’s government. But he soon caught up with the rest of them and sold his soul for a bowl of pottage. A man of Straw indeed. </p>
<p>Tony Blair’s election slogan back in 1997 was Education Education Education. The populace naively thought he was talking about improving literacy and numeracy whilst all the time he was talking about Marxist re-education. </p>
<p>If there are any readers here with UK passports please sign the petition before Britain completely capsizes: <a href="http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/harryhammond/" rel="nofollow">petitions.number10.gov.uk/harryhammond/</a> </p>
<p>Anglican Mainstream has also posted my petition which can be read more fully here: <a href="http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/?p=20848#more-20848" rel="nofollow">www.anglican-mainstream.net/?p=20848#more-20848</a></p>
<p>David Skinner, UK</p>
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		<title>By: Ewan</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2010/01/13/unashamed-social-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-168710</link>
		<dc:creator>Ewan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2274#comment-168710</guid>
		<description>I agree Trevor that being &#039;salt and light&#039; is a part of the Gospel not an additional role to it. I should have chosen my words better there, but I would still lay the greater portion of blame for the present backslidden state of our nation with the church rather than with the unbelievers. Of course unbelievers are responsible for the choices they make, but who is it that is in possession of the Truth? The world or the church?

Ewan McDonald.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree Trevor that being &#8216;salt and light&#8217; is a part of the Gospel not an additional role to it. I should have chosen my words better there, but I would still lay the greater portion of blame for the present backslidden state of our nation with the church rather than with the unbelievers. Of course unbelievers are responsible for the choices they make, but who is it that is in possession of the Truth? The world or the church?</p>
<p>Ewan McDonald.</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor Faggotter</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2010/01/13/unashamed-social-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-168679</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor Faggotter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2274#comment-168679</guid>
		<description>Thanks Ewan - you and I obviously think differently on several matters:  

To be salt and light is to proclaim Christ faithfully. To proclaim Christ, is to be salt and light. These are not really different operations.

Unbelief is far more than a symptom of the church&#039;s failure. There is the mystery of iniquity. There are the dynamics of the powers of darkness. Jesus himself marveled at the unbelief he found among his own people. 

So, I am not sure a lot is to be gained by passing &#039;the buck&#039; to the church, or standing in judgment upon their failures. Christ &#039;walks among&#039; the churches and deals with them. What happens to Christian nations, when they spiral downward, is lamentable. But it is also complex. Others who make up the nation are also responsible. 

Further, biblically we are all at worship, in one way or another - attending to idols, or to Christ&#039;s action. So &#039;doing nothing&#039; is ... well, impossible.  cheers.

Trevor Faggotter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Ewan &#8211; you and I obviously think differently on several matters:  </p>
<p>To be salt and light is to proclaim Christ faithfully. To proclaim Christ, is to be salt and light. These are not really different operations.</p>
<p>Unbelief is far more than a symptom of the church&#8217;s failure. There is the mystery of iniquity. There are the dynamics of the powers of darkness. Jesus himself marveled at the unbelief he found among his own people. </p>
<p>So, I am not sure a lot is to be gained by passing &#8216;the buck&#8217; to the church, or standing in judgment upon their failures. Christ &#8216;walks among&#8217; the churches and deals with them. What happens to Christian nations, when they spiral downward, is lamentable. But it is also complex. Others who make up the nation are also responsible. </p>
<p>Further, biblically we are all at worship, in one way or another &#8211; attending to idols, or to Christ&#8217;s action. So &#8216;doing nothing&#8217; is &#8230; well, impossible.  cheers.</p>
<p>Trevor Faggotter</p>
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		<title>By: Ewan</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2010/01/13/unashamed-social-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-168659</link>
		<dc:creator>Ewan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 02:28:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2274#comment-168659</guid>
		<description>But Trevor, as Bill consistently reminds us, a radical minority is having a disproportionate influence on public policy for evil. Whilst the church with an ostensible majority is failing to counter this with an influence for good. &quot;All that it takes for evil to flourish is for good men and women to do nothing.&quot;

Unbelief is only another symptom of the church&#039;s failure especially when a once majority Christian nation backslides to the point where we are today. When you go into a darkened room and you turn on the light switch and the room stays dark, do you curse the darkness or try and fix the light?

It&#039;s not just proclaiming the Gospel (a role the church is doing very badly at present), but also being salt and light to society (a role that is virtually non-existent at present) that the church should be doing. So the buck really stops with all of us who make up the church.

Ewan McDonald.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Trevor, as Bill consistently reminds us, a radical minority is having a disproportionate influence on public policy for evil. Whilst the church with an ostensible majority is failing to counter this with an influence for good. &#8220;All that it takes for evil to flourish is for good men and women to do nothing.&#8221;</p>
<p>Unbelief is only another symptom of the church&#8217;s failure especially when a once majority Christian nation backslides to the point where we are today. When you go into a darkened room and you turn on the light switch and the room stays dark, do you curse the darkness or try and fix the light?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not just proclaiming the Gospel (a role the church is doing very badly at present), but also being salt and light to society (a role that is virtually non-existent at present) that the church should be doing. So the buck really stops with all of us who make up the church.</p>
<p>Ewan McDonald.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Muehlenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2010/01/13/unashamed-social-engineering/comment-page-1/#comment-168655</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Muehlenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 02:06:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2274#comment-168655</guid>
		<description>Thanks Ewan and Trevor

Needless to say, I think you both are right. Ewan is right to suggest that we are losing time and time again because the church is asleep at the wheel, and really is apathetic and indifferent to all these political and social changes going on. As to this particular bill that we battled last year, I suspect that most Christians in Victoria did not even know about it, and of those who did, only a small percentage actually did something about it. (And sadly an even smaller percentage of believers would have in fact supported this anti-family and anti-child legislation!)

Yet as I said to Jillian, many believers were involved in that particular battle, but we still lost. So Trevor is quite right to suggest that there certainly are groups and ideologies out there which are actively warring against us on all sorts of levels. We need  to be aware of them and know how to counter them.

So both fronts need to be targeted: the outward opposition which is so often anti-faith, anti-family and anti-life; and the inward apathy, indifference and carelessness of so many who call themselves followers of Christ.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Ewan and Trevor</p>
<p>Needless to say, I think you both are right. Ewan is right to suggest that we are losing time and time again because the church is asleep at the wheel, and really is apathetic and indifferent to all these political and social changes going on. As to this particular bill that we battled last year, I suspect that most Christians in Victoria did not even know about it, and of those who did, only a small percentage actually did something about it. (And sadly an even smaller percentage of believers would have in fact supported this anti-family and anti-child legislation!)</p>
<p>Yet as I said to Jillian, many believers were involved in that particular battle, but we still lost. So Trevor is quite right to suggest that there certainly are groups and ideologies out there which are actively warring against us on all sorts of levels. We need  to be aware of them and know how to counter them.</p>
<p>So both fronts need to be targeted: the outward opposition which is so often anti-faith, anti-family and anti-life; and the inward apathy, indifference and carelessness of so many who call themselves followers of Christ.</p>
<p>Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</p>
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