Comments on: Pantheism and Biblical Christianity

By: Bill Knowles

Bill Knowles — Mon, 04 Jul 2011 06:16:10 +0000

Well done. I found your comments very illuminating. I like the terms you used, like Pantheism and etc.. and I found it very interesting that C.S. Lewis warned about the dangers of pantheistic belief way back when. Man has a rebelious streak that runs very deep.. which is the result of sin of course and that is why he wants to call the shots and think he can be in charge. Deception comes from satan of course and he is always busy trying to deceive any that will fall for his lies. I call to remembrance what Jesus words when He said… “take up the cross and follow me”… But it is in the taking up of the cross that one finds real freedom and true purpose… Thanks for your sharing…. I am trying to tell my friends what a joke the Echart Tolle books are.. but they do not want to hear it because Oprah said it was good…. like she of course would know.. cause she has a lot of money… anyway… I am out of here…

Bill Knowles

By: Bill Muehlenberg

Bill Muehlenberg — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 04:18:35 +0000

Thanks Kerisa

Yes I have the Richardson book and read it decades ago. So I would have to dig it out and revisit it. Will then get back to you.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

By: Kerisa

Kerisa — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 03:18:40 +0000

Thank you very much for your thoughts. I found your site after a Google search on pantheism. I became interested in the topic after reading “Eternity In Their Hearts” by missionary Don Richardson. In this work, he references the 1871 anthropological 2-volume “Primitive Culture” by Edward B. Tylor, apparently a cornerstone tome that laid the groundwork for modern anthropology.

I work from memory here, and it has been several months since reading Richardson’s book, but to summarize, Tylor’s theory stated that monotheism could only arise after establishment of specific types of social hierarchies. The first stage of primitive culture and religion = I think about a “soul” as I see myself reflected in a lake. Stage 2 = I think about other souls, as I see animals and trees. This leads to animism. Stage 3 = when a social structure of an aristocracy arises, people start to deify the elite, leading to polytheism (the gods are conceived as a sort of representation of what is seen in this earthly realm). Stage 4 = one person is exalted above the rest (perhaps in kingship), leading to monotheism. Basically his idea was that monotheism always comes after polytheism, after certain social structures arise. His theory was later refuted by one of his own disciples (Andrew Lang), who found in actual fieldwork that extremely primitive cultures without social hierarchy were essentially monotheistic, but often worshipped “lesser gods” (demons) – knowing they were not worshipping the one true God, but feeling they had lost the way to get to Him.

After a confusing search for the origins of pantheism, I found several online articles claiming (and this is what I’m hoping to get your thoughts on) that pantheism is merely the personification of attributes of Deity, i.e. a goddess of Beauty, a goddess of Love, a god of War, etc. These articles therefore made it sound as if pantheism is really similar to every other religious thought system, it is merely another way to think about the attributes of God. Shoot, even Christianity might fall under that heading, then!

Would appreciate your thoughts. Sorry for butchering Tylor.

Kerisa Silverthorne, Michigan

By: Bill Muehlenberg

Bill Muehlenberg — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 04:35:51 +0000

Thanks Ivan

No, we are not God on a whole number of levels, including ontologically. God had no beginning – we did. All of us, as created beings, will now live forever, in one of two eternal destinies. That however does not mean we lose our status as beings who remain distinct and different from an infinite and eternal God. That does not make us infinite, which only God is.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

By: Ivan Taylor

Ivan Taylor — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:10:59 +0000

“We are doubly alienated from God: first, by creation, and secondly, by sin. The first renders us finite; the second renders us fallen. Both these obstacles must be overcome, and we cannot do the overcoming ourselves. It is God who has taken the initiative here.”

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t this actually pantheistic itself? If creation seperates us from God, rather than is the context for our relationship to God, than the goal would be to cease to be finite by becoming infinite in effect being made one with God is an annilation of our finitude not being perfected in our finitude. Sin not finitude seperates the believer from God… as Kierkegaard pointed out any attribution of sin to weakness (read finitude) is a lapse into pantheism.

Ivan Taylor

By: Bill Muehlenberg

Bill Muehlenberg — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 03:50:37 +0000

Thanks Daniel

Yes there are various measures being proposed or already enacted which do provide real restrictions on religious freedom, especially the ability of Christians to freely and publicly proclaim the gospel. I have written up these various threats elsewhere on this site. See for example the Section on ‘Christianity, persecution’.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

By: Daniel Kempton

Daniel Kempton — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 03:25:54 +0000

Hello Bill,
yes I’m thanking you for standing up and clearing up alot of these things people say and do. I have a dumb question, does “Freedom of Religion” mean we won’t be able to “politely decline”? as Dunstan is suggesting? Because if thats true, shouldnt I be praying this doesn’t happen and telling every one I know?
Daniel Kempton

By: Dunstan Hartley

Dunstan Hartley — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:33:52 +0000

Des
But will you be permitted to politely decline her offer to sponsor her program when the Act for “Freedom of Religion and Belief in the 21st century”, or, the “Human Rights Act” are proclaimed by the Rudd government?
Dunstan Hartley

By: John Thomas

John Thomas — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:49:34 +0000

Des Morris’s experience (of occultism/New Ageism edging its way into Christian things (books, worship, media, etc., etc.) – often unseen/unnoticed – is very true, and once you know about it, and look for it, you can see it everywhere. At my (Anglican) church the servers have taken to wearing ankh crosses round their necks. I wondered if the vicar knew his acolytes were visually presenting pagan symbols to the conregation; I wrote to him and asked about his feeings regarding this. I did not get a reply.
John Thomas, UK

By: Frank Norros

Frank Norros — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:11 +0000

Thank you for a wonderful article. I saw the film Avatar and agree with you wholly on what it was portraying. What I found interesting is that the people I went with were oblivious to the hidden (or should I say “very obvious”) messages. It is saddening when I talk to Christians who have bought into this way of thinking. Unfortunately, it is becoming ever more prevalent.

Wishing you and the fellow contributors to this site a happy new year.

Frank Norros