Comments on: David’s Mighty Men: Godly Discontentment

By: Barry Koh

Barry Koh — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 05:33:24 +0000

Roger,
You are right. Many attend certain churches because it has ‘very good worship’. Meaning it has good band of musicians and vocal team, singing the latest worship songs
and able to produce the ‘right emotional and worship atmosphere’ to usher in the presence of God. It goes against my understanding of Mt 18: 20 where Jesus promises His disciples that He will be present when 2 or 3 are gathered in His Name, not conditional upon a “good worship”. Jesus never lies. I like the way you said it: ‘that we have started to worship worship’.
Barry Koh

By: Roger Marks

Roger Marks — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 00:50:47 +0000

Well said Ian. A colleague of mine said “we have started to worship worship” That is very evident from the offering of many churches as it is used by the leadership to warm up the fans for their preaching. You might say it is a good way to cover up their poor preaching which has little depth. And some churches are known for their “worship” or more to the point, upbeat hyper music of the man made kind.

I have said in my blog that singing songs is not worship. We can sing a hundred songs and not worship. In scripture, the word worship means to bow down before the one who has conquered you. If you have been conquered you certainly don’t prance around the room and sing happy songs.

If you haven’t bowed down before your conqueror, singing songs won’t make a blind bit of difference as all it will be is entertainment to make you feel good. True worship places Jesus at the centre, not us. It is not about us getting a buzz; it is about acknowledging our conquering King.

I would suggest that if you attend a meeting because of “its worship” you are there for the wrong reason. Some of the most exciting meetings I have been in were those with no music ministry, no song leader, no music, just the presence of the Holy Spirit convicting us of his holiness and majesty to the point where we were on our knees in silence before him or acknowledging that he was Lord of Lords and we are unworthy. An occasional song was sung exalting Jesus, started by anyone and sung without musical accompaniment.

You don’t get too many of these today because we have to get through the programme so the intervention of the Holy Spirit is not really welcome because he would prevent us from doing things decently and in order.

Roger Marks

By: Tom Wise

Tom Wise — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 05:51:55 +0000

Well said, Bill. Alas, it is all too true. My wife and I spent 30 years trying to get churches to work together for the Faith once delivered to the saints. Mainly we don’t obey the commandment to love one another. The number of “lost sheep” is testimony to the lack of love in the body of Christ.
And the Power of the Gospel in the Name of Christ has been slowly ebbing away. Many are beginning to ask, “Where is the fire?”
Tom Wise

By: Barry Koh

Barry Koh — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 01:58:50 +0000

Danny has a balanced view. Music is just an aid for us to express worship in spiritual songs and hymns. It’s likely that in the early church that gathered in homes, these songs unto God were sung without musical accompaniment. That is because their worship is a heart thing. Today ultracharismatic worship in many churches have become a sensual thing, driven by and dependent on the beat and rythmn from the band and worship team. I know where Danny is coming from. I was once there too, though no where close to his talent. Those were young and gullible days. True worship is when the beat and rythmn comes from the heart tuned into Calvary, and not a sensual and emotional creation of the band.
Barry Koh

By: Ewan

Ewan — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 13:38:00 +0000

Danny's story sounds similar to that of Dan Lucarini in his book Why I left the Contemporary Christian Music Movement. Ewan McDonald.

By: Bill Muehlenberg

Bill Muehlenberg — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 23:27:19 +0000

Many thanks Danny

I think what you have shared is an important word, and one which all worship teams and church leaders should more closely consider. Sure, there can be genuinely spirit-led and selfless musicians involved in worship, but how much of our worship is really man-centred, celebrity-driven, entertainment-orientated and ultimately a product of the flesh and a poor imitation of the surrounding secular culture?

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

By: Danny Polglase

Danny Polglase — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 14:16:07 +0000

I believe that as a musician once heavily involved with traditional, megachurch-type and ultracharismatic forms of ‘worship’ I can write with some authority here.
Without wanting to detract from the thrust of Bill’s post (excellent, by the way), or to turn these comments into a debate on a secondary theme, I want to quickly share how the Lord has completely led me away (for now) from involvement in any kind of church music.
Some time ago I desired to be and was on my way to becoming a ‘worship celebrity,’ a musician/worship leader of skill and passion. But the Lord opened my eyes to see how self-indulgent and how utterly obsessed the church has become with the cultural phenomenon of performance music. He first dealt with my ambition, and then with my desire for fame (within a Christian context), and finally showed me how small and unassuming a role music played in the context of the life of the NT church.
Music was there, for sure, but it was not the central activity of the church’s worship because it was too exclusive an activity. Everyone can eat, but not everyone can or likes to sing/dance/play music.
I am yet to encounter another musician such as myself, who understands that music in the modern church era has been wrongly elevated to the level of ’spiritual-gifting.’ (How many times have I been told ‘you are SO anointed, brother?’) It’s idolatry, plain and simple.
There is plenty more of this journey that the Lord has me on, and right now He is reeducating me about the proper balance of musical vs nonmusical worship in the church. I have tried to be as brief as possible, and no doubt some here may misunderstand me because of that. But please understand that I am not condemning the use of music per se in church worship; rather, I am condemning the hero-worship, the performance aspects and the capitulation to worldly culture that it has become.

Danny Polglase

By: Jim Sturla

Jim Sturla — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 23:33:59 +0000

Thank you Bill, I am one of the “discontented”.
My wife and I could once have been described as “church junkies” but for various reasons we no longer attend.
Comments made against us have, I will admit, hurt us but we realise that Jesus is our head and that we will answer to him.
Your article has helped us greatly.
jim Sturla

By: Barry Koh

Barry Koh — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 00:13:38 +0000

Katherine,
Yes, God is not concern with style of worship but a worship that is in spirit and truth. That is a worship that is heart thing, conditioned by our daily walk with Jesus. It is a worship that is Christ driven, and with a heart that is full of thanksgiving for Calvary. That is a worship that is not dependent on the external props and atmosphere, not a worship that is sensuality driven, that centres on the beat and rhythm of the music to create the right emotional atmosphere for an ‘annointed’ worship. God is present when 2 or 3 are gathered in His Name (Mt 18:20). That is His promise and it is not conditional upon us creating a concert like atmosphere for Him to be present. That is the way New Testament Christians worship as they gather in their homes.
Barry Koh

By: david Skinner

david Skinner — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:56:54 +0000

Scott, you describe exactly the situation in which my wife and I found ourselves. We are no longer a member of any local church, but travel, when possible to a church a good hour’s drive away. This can hardly be called having fellowship or being part of the body, but at least we get solid spiritual food.
The theme of this thread is what happens when a church becomes comfortable, complacent and yet luke-warm – like the church at Laodicea – when unity (conformity – don’t rock the boat) becomes more important than facing tough, searching questions and its leaders become an inner core who become impervious to discerning questions. What happens when the church you are in identifies itself as merely a therapy centre, a field hospital and not a barracks? What happens when it becomes more concerned about keeping its good name in the locality, than challenging injustice and unrighteousness? What happens when it becomes locked in its comfort zone and indistinguishable from the surrounding culture, when it cost its members nothing to attend except the their time and petrol?

Returning therefore to our text: “David left Gath and escaped to the cave of Adullam. When his brothers and his father’s household heard about it, they went down to him there. All those who were in distress or in debt or discontented gathered around him, and he became their leader. About four hundred men were with him.” 1 Samuel. 21:1-2

I can think of another leader who drew a mixed bag of disciples. Some were mere followers but had not been called, and some had been called but not chosen. In John 6:66-71 it says, “From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him. ‘You do not want to leave too, do you?’ Jesus asked the Twelve. Simon Peter answered him, ‘Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.’ Then Jesus replied, ‘Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!’ (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.).”

In the letter to the Corinthian church, Paul also has to remind them of who they were, are who their leader is: “Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: ‘Let him who boasts boast in the Lord’.” 1Cor. 1:26-31

In 1 Cor. 6:9-11, he then goes to describe how this bunch of misfits and flunkies should be being transformed one from degree of glory to another so as to be changed into the likeness of Jesus our saviour and Lord. “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”

So what happens when a church runs on humanism and the flesh? What happens when the Christ it preaches is a billion miles away from the suffering Christ of the Bible? What happens when repentance does not translate into a changed life and what happens when there is no longer a fear of the one who can throw us into hell? It becomes fit for nothing except to be spewed out.

David Skinner, UK