It is always dangerous to post a comment here – it may often get me wound up enough to drop everything (even cooking dinner, which I am now supposed to be doing!), and pen an entire article in response! That is what I have just done, so see my thoughts here: www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/11/27/on-biblical-cooperation-and-separation/

Thanks again for your comments. As always, we need to sharpen one another and challenge one another in the faith.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

I would have to say in response that by and large I have found your hard work in cultural issues to be more worthy of compliment than criticism. I recognise that through your work here as well as involvement with secular and Christian media sources that you are playing a very valuable part in defending the social values that biblical Christians should all hold to as matters of principle.

Moreover, your recent comments on the dangers of the Emergent/Emerging Church and the need for purer preaching in our churches do demonstrate a commitment to solid, biblical doctrine on your behalf.

Nevertheless I would still retain some serious concerns over close co-operation with openly non or anti-Christian groups (which does often include certain conservative groups and religious movements by implication) based on where it may gradually lead and what effect it may have on the clarity of well-expressed, Christian orthodoxy over a period of time.

That being said, I look forward to you writing more on the issue in the future and since I, like you, have an extreme aversion to many forms of social corruption going on in society – which some non-Christians may also oppose – I think that your perspective on these issues, as someone with considerable experience in the area, is worthy of consideration by those of us who still have reservations.

Yarran Johnston

I have spoken about these matters elsewhere, and a full article could be forthcoming here. But let me make a few points. I am of course an evangelical Protestant. I make no apologies for that, and I have not tried to hide that fact. Therefore I will obviously have some theological differences with Catholics. But that is true of other types of Christians as well: I will also have plenty of theological differences with the Orthodox, and even with other Protestants. Indeed, I can often disagree with fellow evangelicals.

While any reader of this site will certainly see that I put a premium on truth and sound theology, it is also clear that I see the great value of co-belligerency. If we do not work together on so many of these crucial issues, we will simply lose everything.

Thus while genuine theological differences will always exist, if we can find some common ground to unite against our greater enemies, that is my preference here in this website and in my ministry. Indeed, I am involved with various pro-family and pro-life coalitions which include all sorts of groups which do not agree on a theological level, but have come together for limited, temporary, and tactical reasons, and have been willing to lay aside theological issues, to work for important issues.

Thus I have worked with Muslims, Mormons, Moonies and all sorts of other groups on some of these limited, tactical and short-term projects. I have no problems with that. The important thing is to take on some of these major challenges we face.

Indeed, many of these battles are too big for us to quarrel amongst ourselves, while letting the other side get away with murder. And of course co-belligerency is by definition a short-term working together for specific purposes on a specific issue. It has nothing to do with compromising, or abandoning one’s beliefs, etc.

This has worked wonderfully on the international level. For example when radical feminists, pro-aborts and homosexuals are trying to push something, say, at the UN, it is often a coalition of pro-life and pro-family groups, along with the Muslim voting bloc, and the Vatican, that have combined and successfully defeated their initiatives time and time again.

The truth is, in these culture wars, if we first come out with a long list of criteria and beliefs that we have to check off before we work with someone else, we will very soon be down to a handful of like-minded folk. I have disagreements with all sorts of people at times. But if I demanded complete agreement on every theological point, then I would be a club of one. And I don’t always agree with myself all the time!

So we need to learn to work together with others wherever possible, bearing in mind the bigger war we are in. This may not always be possible, but when it is, then let’s go for it.

I hope this answers your questions. Not all evangelicals will be happy with my response. That is fine. I have to do what I feel is right, and what I sense the Lord is leading me to do. But in some of these areas we may have to agree to disagree.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

In relation to Albert Mohler and John Macarthur’s differing views on signing the declaration, I had read Mohler’s statement a few days ago and I had seen just yesterday Tim Challies quote MacArthur on his opposition to signing.

I understand the need to maintain a strong front and voice on social issues, however the message it sends about doctrinal differences could be interpreted as quite concerning. I hate to sound so pragmatic, but from a coldly strategic perspective it is probably to an advantage that we have on the one hand enough influential evangelicals signing the document to give uniformed authority to the convictions being expressed to society, while on the other hand enough evangelical leaders refuse to sign, which means that a testimony against the faulty doctrine of Catholicism and other organisations is still being highlighted in the midst of this issue. But that’s pragmatics and strategy…From a more personal, convictions-based viewpoint, while I agree with the core principles proclaimed by the declaration, I would have issues about the implications of signing along with “fellow-Christians” when I don’t regard some of the signatories or the denominations they represent to hold to a true Christian gospel that is viable for the salvation of sinners.

So while it seems my position echoes MacArthur and Challies etc; can I ask Bill and others who are closer to Mohler’s position, two questions:
a) While we can all appreciate that Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox churches have solid Trinitarian doctrinal traditions, there are other serious issues regarding their interpretations of vital Christian truths. Given this, seeing as how it is seen as acceptable for evangelicals to work with these groups for common social causes, would this extend to non-Trinitarian pseudo-Christian groups and what about other religions with socially conservative outlooks such as Islam. How far should co-operation extend.

b) Do you see any distinction between working with people of different (or no) spiritual convictions politically when those people are politicians as opposed to religious leaders specifically (as this declaration is focused on. For instance, I see a difference between supporting moves by Roman Catholic politicians such as Tony Abbott and Barnaby Joyce against abortion and joining some sort of lobby led by one of them if they were the Catholic bishop of one of Australia’s cities. Do others see any distinction?

Yarran Johnston

I enjoy much of what MacArthur writes about, but I think he is simply wrong here. He fails to appreciate the crucial role of co-belligerency (working together with others for limited purposes to achieve certain ends). And he fails to see that one can both preach the gospel and work for social goods simultaneously. Wilberforce is of course the prime example here.

Indeed, he has said quite similar things in a book he wrote back in 2000. I wrote a review of that book, sharing my concerns: www.billmuehlenberg.com/2001/11/28/a-review-of-why-government-can%E2%80%99t-save-you-by-john-macarthur/

My same concerns apply here.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

Barry Koh

Let’s hope and pray it will have the same impact as that ancient document nailed by Martin Luther onto the then current community notice board – the Church Door.

Michelle Shave

www.albertmohler.com/2009/11/23/why-i-signed-the-manhattan-declaration/

David Skinner, UK