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	<title>Comments on: Biblical Illiteracy in Public Life</title>
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	<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/11/09/biblical-illiteracy-in-public-life/</link>
	<description>Bill Muehlenberg&#039;s commentary on issues of the day...</description>
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		<title>By: Victoria</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/11/09/biblical-illiteracy-in-public-life/comment-page-1/#comment-161007</link>
		<dc:creator>Victoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2104#comment-161007</guid>
		<description>I find it rather amusing that Mr Hockey sees the decline of Christianity as stemming from &lt;i&gt;“...the reliance placed on a literal reading of the testaments by church leaders. By encouraging literalist analysis of the Bible, many churches have inadvertently invited people to question the validity of a faith that seems to be based on questionable facts or outdated prescription.....&quot;&lt;/i&gt;. Especially considering that it&#039;s been decades since many churches taught their members to believe the Bible as the literal word of God. He could have at least come up with something original instead of that tired nonsense. 

The truth of the matter is that liberal interpretations of the Bible and Higher Criticism has eroded people&#039;s faith in God&#039;s Word. It is also true, as others here have stated, that many people only want their ears tickled. Telling them that Biblical morality does matter does not make them feel all warm and cozy inside and many religious leaders have failed to teach God&#039;s Word for fear of seeming outdated or bigoted or fear of losing membership - and money. They have shown themselves in fear of Man rather than in fear of God. There is a price to pay for this lack of leadership and lack of obedience in Christians in general. It&#039;s called Armageddon.

Victoria Demona</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it rather amusing that Mr Hockey sees the decline of Christianity as stemming from <i>“&#8230;the reliance placed on a literal reading of the testaments by church leaders. By encouraging literalist analysis of the Bible, many churches have inadvertently invited people to question the validity of a faith that seems to be based on questionable facts or outdated prescription&#8230;..&#8221;</i>. Especially considering that it&#8217;s been decades since many churches taught their members to believe the Bible as the literal word of God. He could have at least come up with something original instead of that tired nonsense. </p>
<p>The truth of the matter is that liberal interpretations of the Bible and Higher Criticism has eroded people&#8217;s faith in God&#8217;s Word. It is also true, as others here have stated, that many people only want their ears tickled. Telling them that Biblical morality does matter does not make them feel all warm and cozy inside and many religious leaders have failed to teach God&#8217;s Word for fear of seeming outdated or bigoted or fear of losing membership &#8211; and money. They have shown themselves in fear of Man rather than in fear of God. There is a price to pay for this lack of leadership and lack of obedience in Christians in general. It&#8217;s called Armageddon.</p>
<p>Victoria Demona</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/11/09/biblical-illiteracy-in-public-life/comment-page-1/#comment-160759</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:56:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2104#comment-160759</guid>
		<description>I just want to comment on what Alfred said a little earlier. If the universe is the way that Dawkin&#039;s describes it, completely reducible to natural causes, then there a lot of things he can&#039;t by definition do. One of those is engage in logical reasoning. I would love Alfred to explain what the rules of logic are in a purely naturalistic worldview. There are gaping holes in Mr. Dawkins&#039; conclusions and any open-minded person who reads material in response to his should be able to see that.
Keith Jarrett</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just want to comment on what Alfred said a little earlier. If the universe is the way that Dawkin&#8217;s describes it, completely reducible to natural causes, then there a lot of things he can&#8217;t by definition do. One of those is engage in logical reasoning. I would love Alfred to explain what the rules of logic are in a purely naturalistic worldview. There are gaping holes in Mr. Dawkins&#8217; conclusions and any open-minded person who reads material in response to his should be able to see that.<br />
Keith Jarrett</p>
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		<title>By: blake</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/11/09/biblical-illiteracy-in-public-life/comment-page-1/#comment-160662</link>
		<dc:creator>blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2104#comment-160662</guid>
		<description>You have to recognize that politicians have lots of help in writing speeches. There are issues of timing and positioning for Mr Hockey with potential leadership changes ahead. Those that aid him in writing his speeches would be using some sort of information gained from opinion polls. (I am assuming here)

What we see is a careful appeal to the majority of voters. I would agree that it is dangerous to play to the crowd, but it does give us some indication of the nature of the crowd. I think I am going and tell someone the truth about Jesus, then i am going to try and find someone else and so on... I might even help to enlighten some &quot;believers&quot;.

Thanks bill, we owe you a great debt in the work you do.

R.J. Blake</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have to recognize that politicians have lots of help in writing speeches. There are issues of timing and positioning for Mr Hockey with potential leadership changes ahead. Those that aid him in writing his speeches would be using some sort of information gained from opinion polls. (I am assuming here)</p>
<p>What we see is a careful appeal to the majority of voters. I would agree that it is dangerous to play to the crowd, but it does give us some indication of the nature of the crowd. I think I am going and tell someone the truth about Jesus, then i am going to try and find someone else and so on&#8230; I might even help to enlighten some &#8220;believers&#8221;.</p>
<p>Thanks bill, we owe you a great debt in the work you do.</p>
<p>R.J. Blake</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Eldridge</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/11/09/biblical-illiteracy-in-public-life/comment-page-1/#comment-160564</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Eldridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2104#comment-160564</guid>
		<description>Reading the scriptures, the Bible, is not enough. Many people are capable of reading the Bible and can become &quot;experts&quot; in what is written. Unless those people have a personal encounter with Jesus, the book is just another text. Let&#039;s be realistic, as a book, the Bible contains many conflicts and can be easily criticised. Unfortunately, the &quot;Church&quot; is full of experts. From an &quot;expert&quot; point of view, religions are similar.
It is not necessary to be a biblical &quot;expert&quot; but it is necessary to understand the Grace of God and to accept the forgiveness that our Lord and Saviour has already purchased for us on the cross. It sounds like Mr Hockey is still to do so.
Steven Eldridge</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading the scriptures, the Bible, is not enough. Many people are capable of reading the Bible and can become &#8220;experts&#8221; in what is written. Unless those people have a personal encounter with Jesus, the book is just another text. Let&#8217;s be realistic, as a book, the Bible contains many conflicts and can be easily criticised. Unfortunately, the &#8220;Church&#8221; is full of experts. From an &#8220;expert&#8221; point of view, religions are similar.<br />
It is not necessary to be a biblical &#8220;expert&#8221; but it is necessary to understand the Grace of God and to accept the forgiveness that our Lord and Saviour has already purchased for us on the cross. It sounds like Mr Hockey is still to do so.<br />
Steven Eldridge</p>
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		<title>By: Mansel Rogerson</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/11/09/biblical-illiteracy-in-public-life/comment-page-1/#comment-160559</link>
		<dc:creator>Mansel Rogerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2104#comment-160559</guid>
		<description>Hi Stuart,

If Cameron is a confused Christian, then the Pope could be described as a confused Buddhist. Consider Cameron&#039;s capitulation to the homosexual agenda:

Cameron said that one of his “proudest” moments as leader of the Conservatives was when he told a party conference in 2006 that they had a duty to support a “commitment to marriage” among men and women, between a “man and a man, and a woman and a woman”.

http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/02/why-the-sun-is-setting-on-england/

Far from applauding his honesty, we should be exposing his disingenuity.

Mansel Rogerson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Stuart,</p>
<p>If Cameron is a confused Christian, then the Pope could be described as a confused Buddhist. Consider Cameron&#8217;s capitulation to the homosexual agenda:</p>
<p>Cameron said that one of his “proudest” moments as leader of the Conservatives was when he told a party conference in 2006 that they had a duty to support a “commitment to marriage” among men and women, between a “man and a man, and a woman and a woman”.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/02/why-the-sun-is-setting-on-england/" rel="nofollow">www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/02/why-the-sun-is-setting-on-england/</a></p>
<p>Far from applauding his honesty, we should be exposing his disingenuity.</p>
<p>Mansel Rogerson</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Muehlenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/11/09/biblical-illiteracy-in-public-life/comment-page-1/#comment-160554</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Muehlenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2104#comment-160554</guid>
		<description>Thanks guys

More of his speech can be found here, and it is still bad news: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/god-is-good-but-just-be-sure-not-to-take-him-too-literally-20091109-i58p.html 

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks guys</p>
<p>More of his speech can be found here, and it is still bad news: <a href="http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/god-is-good-but-just-be-sure-not-to-take-him-too-literally-20091109-i58p.html" rel="nofollow">www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/god-is-good-but-just-be-sure-not-to-take-him-too-literally-20091109-i58p.html</a> </p>
<p>Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hutton, Ariah Park</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/11/09/biblical-illiteracy-in-public-life/comment-page-1/#comment-160548</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hutton, Ariah Park</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2104#comment-160548</guid>
		<description>Murray, 

You are right when you link to the decline of Sunday School, but I would widen the scope and include the decline of preaching, and of real pastoral care (of the spiritual rather than emotional kind)

Many congregations do not want to do the hard work of learning and understanding the Bible.  They want a pep talk.  Many preachers don&#039;t want to do the hard work of giving the congregation what they need, rather than what they want.  It is too painful to watch them go somewhere else because it&#039;s easier there.

If we want to blame someone for the mess we are in, we must blame ourselves, the church, and we must repent now of the laziness, worldliness, apathy and ungodliness in our own lives.

If the salt loses its saltiness...

God Bless,
Michael Hutton</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Murray, </p>
<p>You are right when you link to the decline of Sunday School, but I would widen the scope and include the decline of preaching, and of real pastoral care (of the spiritual rather than emotional kind)</p>
<p>Many congregations do not want to do the hard work of learning and understanding the Bible.  They want a pep talk.  Many preachers don&#8217;t want to do the hard work of giving the congregation what they need, rather than what they want.  It is too painful to watch them go somewhere else because it&#8217;s easier there.</p>
<p>If we want to blame someone for the mess we are in, we must blame ourselves, the church, and we must repent now of the laziness, worldliness, apathy and ungodliness in our own lives.</p>
<p>If the salt loses its saltiness&#8230;</p>
<p>God Bless,<br />
Michael Hutton</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Muehlenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/11/09/biblical-illiteracy-in-public-life/comment-page-1/#comment-160590</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Muehlenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2104#comment-160590</guid>
		<description>Thanks Alfred

Sorry, but I much prefer the more honest and less ideologically driven atheists than true believers and Dawkins’ groupies such as yourself. Those who are not pushing a misotheist agenda cringe at the claims Dawkins makes, such as Michael Ruse who said that &lt;em&gt;The God Delusion&lt;/em&gt; “makes me embarrassed to be an atheist”.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Alfred</p>
<p>Sorry, but I much prefer the more honest and less ideologically driven atheists than true believers and Dawkins’ groupies such as yourself. Those who are not pushing a misotheist agenda cringe at the claims Dawkins makes, such as Michael Ruse who said that <em>The God Delusion</em> “makes me embarrassed to be an atheist”.</p>
<p>Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</p>
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		<title>By: Alfred Tubble</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/11/09/biblical-illiteracy-in-public-life/comment-page-1/#comment-160509</link>
		<dc:creator>Alfred Tubble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 15:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2104#comment-160509</guid>
		<description>&quot;Consider Richard Dawkins for example. His understanding of Scripture is abysmal, yet he pretends that he is some sort of authority on the subject.&quot;

Richard Dawkins is an authority on science and nature and when the bible suggests that the laws of nature can be broken or that there are things outside nature, it is well within his area of expertice.
I also disagree that Dawkins pretends to be an authority on scripture. He applies standard tools of formal reasoning to the bible. Logical reasoning provides rigid rules that works the same way on all possible texts. I don&#039;t see why the bible should be made an exception or why any one text would require some sort of special education.
I would agree that any text must be seen in the appropriate historical context, and that this might have an effect on how one should interpret it&#039;s logic. But it is problematic to suggest that in order to make a fair criticism of a book, one has to do more than a proper reading of the text. And this Dawkins has undoubtedly done.
Alfred Tubble</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Consider Richard Dawkins for example. His understanding of Scripture is abysmal, yet he pretends that he is some sort of authority on the subject.&#8221;</p>
<p>Richard Dawkins is an authority on science and nature and when the bible suggests that the laws of nature can be broken or that there are things outside nature, it is well within his area of expertice.<br />
I also disagree that Dawkins pretends to be an authority on scripture. He applies standard tools of formal reasoning to the bible. Logical reasoning provides rigid rules that works the same way on all possible texts. I don&#8217;t see why the bible should be made an exception or why any one text would require some sort of special education.<br />
I would agree that any text must be seen in the appropriate historical context, and that this might have an effect on how one should interpret it&#8217;s logic. But it is problematic to suggest that in order to make a fair criticism of a book, one has to do more than a proper reading of the text. And this Dawkins has undoubtedly done.<br />
Alfred Tubble</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Muehlenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/11/09/biblical-illiteracy-in-public-life/comment-page-1/#comment-160491</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Muehlenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=2104#comment-160491</guid>
		<description>Thanks Yarran 

There certainly are some solid Christians in Federal Parliament. Perhaps a tad more can be found in the Coalition than in Labor. But as to how many are Biblically literate is a good question indeed. Not too many come to mind, but for the most part I am not all that familiar with the details of their faith. Presumably if they attend churches with a strong emphasis on Scripture, that may translate into some Biblical literacy. But not necessarily I suspect.

Murray in his comment lists a few basic marks of Biblical literacy. Whether our Christian pollies would pass such a test is a moot point.

As an anecdote, many years ago I was giving evidence at a Senate Committee hearing having to do with something about homosexuality. A Senator came up to me and quietly asked me where the story of Sodom and Gomorrah was to be found in the Bible. I told him.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Yarran </p>
<p>There certainly are some solid Christians in Federal Parliament. Perhaps a tad more can be found in the Coalition than in Labor. But as to how many are Biblically literate is a good question indeed. Not too many come to mind, but for the most part I am not all that familiar with the details of their faith. Presumably if they attend churches with a strong emphasis on Scripture, that may translate into some Biblical literacy. But not necessarily I suspect.</p>
<p>Murray in his comment lists a few basic marks of Biblical literacy. Whether our Christian pollies would pass such a test is a moot point.</p>
<p>As an anecdote, many years ago I was giving evidence at a Senate Committee hearing having to do with something about homosexuality. A Senator came up to me and quietly asked me where the story of Sodom and Gomorrah was to be found in the Bible. I told him.</p>
<p>Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</p>
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