Comments on: Notable Christians: Francis Schaeffer

By: Bill Derham

Bill Derham — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:52:07 +0000

Dear Bill
There was a time when I might have argued and criticised you for what you don’t know or say but God has taught me something. We know in part and we prophesy in part and WE includes ALL of us. It would be mean spirited of me to criticise you for what you do not do when you are doing so much good. You challenge lukewarm Christianity and mindless belief. You challenge and interact with people ignored by so many Christians. You seriously study and write about contemporary culture in such a way that people way outside of Christianity want to talk to you, even if they do not agree with you. A wide range of people are drawn into dialogue, from Pentecostal revivalists to hard core homosexual humanists. Keep up the great work. You carry on some of the work pioneered by Francis Schaeffer and Os Guinness. In due season we will reap a harvest if we do not lose heart. I pray God’s riches blessing on you!
Love in Jesus from Bill Derham in Perth Aus.

By: Bill Muehlenberg

Bill Muehlenberg — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:38:41 +0000

Thanks Bill

I don’t really claim to be fully aware of all that is happening in the Christian world today, nor am I up on all the various prophetic-type ministries. My talk simply sought to give a few illustrations, not provide an exhaustive list. I am sure there are many other suitable candidates that could be mentioned.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

By: Bill Derham

Bill Derham — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 11:01:40 +0000

Dear Bill
I DID like your talk and I might have been too critical in my response. I have read Schaeffer but not some of the others. Francis Schaeffer wrote one of my most treasured books: ART and the BIBLE.
Tozer is on my short list of must-reads. Thank you for replying so promptly and being gracious to publish my comment. As a matter of interest, which contemporary prophetic ministries do you like?
I also find it interesting that your definition of PROPHETIC seems to be broader than that used by many Pentecostal, Charismatic or Third Wave people. I know many people appreciate your ministry but many of those who value your work might not necessarily call you a prophet.
Rick Joyner is sometimes prophetic in the narrower sense of the word, reporting supernatural revelations. At other times he is more like an inspired thinker or spiritual philosopher. I think we need both. Is it stretching the boundaries of the prophetic too much to call CS Lewis prophetic? What about Martin Luther King?
I was interested in what you said about Keith Green. Would you perhaps consider Larry Norman (I WISH WE’D ALL BEEN READY) and Robin Mark (Days of Elijah)? I have been meditating on the song DAYS OF ELIJAH and I have reached the conclusion that it may be one of the most significant prophetic messages from God in the last 15 years or so. It is sad that so many people just sing it but it doesn’t necessarily change the direction of the churches where it is sung.
God bless you from
Bill Derham

By: Bill Muehlenberg

Bill Muehlenberg — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 09:45:04 +0000

Thanks Bill

But where in my talk did I say “there are no contemporary prophetic ministries”? Just because I listed a few does not mean I believe there are no others!

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

By: Bill Derham

Bill Derham — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 09:10:23 +0000

Dear Bill
I bookmarked your site some time ago. You fill a niche and you fill it well. I just listened to a CD of your message in Perth on December 13, 09. “Where have all the prophets gone?”
I liked your message. You quoted challenging writings by 20th Century heroes of faith and I found these sayings well chosen and inspiring. I am a prophetic writer/preacher/teacher and you encourage me. I liked your choice of prophetic people of the 20th Century: Tozer, Ravenhill, Schaeffer, David Wilkinson and Keith Green.
BUT why did you not mention any CONTEMPORARY prophetic voices? Why did you not mention at least some of these: Rick Joyner, Bob Jones, Cindy Jacobs, Wendy Alec, Kathie Walters, Loren Cunningham, Bill Hamon, Chuck Pierce, John Mulinde or Kim Clement? If we also include people with a more Apostolic gifting, we could include Dutch Sheets, Heidi Baker, Bill Johnson, Reinhard Bonnke and Ed Silvoso. Sure, all of these are controversial, but all true prophets (as well as some false ones) have been controversial.

If you don’t agree with my list, maybe you could suggest some other names. However, if you suggest that there are no contemporary prophetic ministries worthy to compare with the past legends you mentioned, then I think that might indicate that something is missing in your view of the church.
It is easy to honour past heroes but it takes faith and discernment to identify true contemporary prophets. It also requires courage to publicly praise contemporary prophets because they are always controversial.
This is not a small matter because it is through contemporary prophets that God speaks to His people NOW.
God bless you from Bill Derham in Perth, Australia.

By: John Thomas

John Thomas — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 14:06:09 +0000

David (Skinner) – Your words are sobering, but I don’t think unrealistic. But “war” can sometimes throw up some unexpected benefits – it will cause many nominal Christians (church leaders, and church denominations) to have to decide which side they are on. For us in the UK this has particular relevance of course, since secular-culture-compliant denominations and church leaders (you know who these are) will have to choose, then having chosen, actually do something. If they have chosen for Christ, this may mean suffering – did the Lord ever offer us/ask of us anything else?; if they thought He did, they will be in for a shock.
John Thomas, UK

By: Bill Muehlenberg

Bill Muehlenberg — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 07:11:34 +0000

Thanks David

And given that this is the Internet age, their website as well!: http://www.labri.org/england/index.html

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

By: david skinner

david skinner — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 07:04:42 +0000

Many thanks Bill, This is the address for those in the UK:

L’Abri Fellowship
The Manor House
Greatham, Liss
Hants GU33 6HF
United Kingdom
01420-538436

David Skinner, UK

By: Bill Muehlenberg

Bill Muehlenberg — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 04:52:33 +0000

Thanks Wayne

Yes, here is their Australian website: http://www.labri.org/australia/index.html

And yes, No Little People is a great collection of 16 of his sermons.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

By: Bill Muehlenberg

Bill Muehlenberg — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 04:52:01 +0000

Thanks Iain

Yes I am with you on your preferred reading lists!

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch