Comments on: Our Leaders Need to Walk the Talk http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/09/21/our-leaders-need-to-walk-the-talk/ Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day... Sat, 11 Feb 2012 02:03:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Jim Sturla http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/09/21/our-leaders-need-to-walk-the-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-155562 Jim Sturla Mon, 28 Sep 2009 00:56:47 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1894#comment-155562 Years ago I was honored to be part of a ministry to the Australian Army, the Everyman's Welfare Service. Before being sent to the Recruit Training Battalion down in Wagga I spent some time with the Chief Commissioner. He said "Jim' you are going to a group of young men who do not read the Bible, so, you must be a walking Bible." People will judge you not by your words but by your actions, we are told not to be "stumbling blocks" so what example is the PM setting, what does he present to Australians as being the way that Christians act? Jim Sturla Years ago I was honored to be part of a ministry to the Australian Army, the Everyman’s Welfare Service.
Before being sent to the Recruit Training Battalion down in Wagga I spent some time with the Chief Commissioner.
He said “Jim’ you are going to a group of young men who do not read the Bible, so, you must be a walking Bible.”
People will judge you not by your words but by your actions, we are told not to be “stumbling blocks” so what example is the PM setting, what does he present to Australians as being the way that Christians act?
Jim Sturla

]]> By: Ewan http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/09/21/our-leaders-need-to-walk-the-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-155364 Ewan Fri, 25 Sep 2009 00:28:20 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1894#comment-155364 Whether Rudd is a genuine Christian or not only God really knows, but we can certainly observe that the evidence is lacking. However, what is not in doubt is that Rudd is about a million miles away from having a Christian or Biblical worldview and this is what really matters when it comes to politics. As I have said before, I would rather vote for a professing atheist who demonstrated a biblical worldview than for a professing Christian who demonstrates a humanist/Marxist worldview like Rudd does. And I don't really care if (I suspect) Jim Wallace thinks Mr Rudd is a genuine Christian, what should concern Mr Wallace in his role as ACL leader is whether Mr Rudd is governing consistent with a biblical worldview and that is certainly what he is not doing. Ewan McDonald. Whether Rudd is a genuine Christian or not only God really knows, but we can certainly observe that the evidence is lacking. However, what is not in doubt is that Rudd is about a million miles away from having a Christian or Biblical worldview and this is what really matters when it comes to politics. As I have said before, I would rather vote for a professing atheist who demonstrated a biblical worldview than for a professing Christian who demonstrates a humanist/Marxist worldview like Rudd does.

And I don’t really care if (I suspect) Jim Wallace thinks Mr Rudd is a genuine Christian, what should concern Mr Wallace in his role as ACL leader is whether Mr Rudd is governing consistent with a biblical worldview and that is certainly what he is not doing.

Ewan McDonald.

]]> By: John Snowden http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/09/21/our-leaders-need-to-walk-the-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-155321 John Snowden Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:15:11 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1894#comment-155321 John Thomas, I agree. Swearing warrants analysis of its patterns. There are double standards to be noted. For example, the "f" word is very common in films and on a certain TV chef show but swear words derived from the noun "buggery" are virtually taboo. Political correctness even shapes foul language. John Snowden John Thomas, I agree. Swearing warrants analysis of its patterns. There are double standards to be noted. For example, the “f” word is very common in films and on a certain TV chef show but swear words derived from the noun “buggery” are virtually taboo. Political correctness even shapes foul language.
John Snowden

]]> By: Barry Koh http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/09/21/our-leaders-need-to-walk-the-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-155277 Barry Koh Thu, 24 Sep 2009 04:34:10 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1894#comment-155277 We are not infallible creatures, Kevin Rudd is no exception, and we all need to check ourselves very often. As Kevin Rudd is well acquainted with Chinese culture, he should remind himself often what Lao Tzu said, "He who controls others maybe powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier." Barry Koh We are not infallible creatures, Kevin Rudd is no exception, and we all need to check ourselves very often. As Kevin Rudd is well acquainted with Chinese culture, he should remind himself often what Lao Tzu said, “He who controls others maybe powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier.”
Barry Koh

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/09/21/our-leaders-need-to-walk-the-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-155251 Bill Muehlenberg Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:24:14 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1894#comment-155251 Thanks David But with all due respect, you continue to miss the point. Yes, we are saved purely by God’s grace alone, and yes, only God knows those who are truly his. But the issue here is different. Mr Rudd professes to be a Christian. He is both a very public figure, a national leader, and someone who seems to have some real problems that do not at all speak well of his profession of faith. There must be dozens of passages in the NT alone commanding us to encourage and admonish one another to be all we can be in Christ. To be honest, if I had as high of a public profile as he did, and was clearly sinning in a certain area, and no one called me up on it, or in fact sought to make excuses for my behaviour, I would be greatly let down by my fellow believers. I would be cheated. We all need to be held accountable. Simply defending a believer’s transgressions helps no one, and is far from being biblical. But yes we certainly need to be praying for our leaders. But as we pray for Rudd, we should also write to him, and mention to him that he is doing the cause of Christ no good at least in this particular area. Finally, while one can debate how different Rudd is from Hulls, they both belong to a party that is bent on activism and social engineering. And the Labor Party is far more than just Rudd. Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks David

But with all due respect, you continue to miss the point. Yes, we are saved purely by God’s grace alone, and yes, only God knows those who are truly his. But the issue here is different. Mr Rudd professes to be a Christian. He is both a very public figure, a national leader, and someone who seems to have some real problems that do not at all speak well of his profession of faith. There must be dozens of passages in the NT alone commanding us to encourage and admonish one another to be all we can be in Christ.

To be honest, if I had as high of a public profile as he did, and was clearly sinning in a certain area, and no one called me up on it, or in fact sought to make excuses for my behaviour, I would be greatly let down by my fellow believers. I would be cheated. We all need to be held accountable. Simply defending a believer’s transgressions helps no one, and is far from being biblical.

But yes we certainly need to be praying for our leaders. But as we pray for Rudd, we should also write to him, and mention to him that he is doing the cause of Christ no good at least in this particular area.

Finally, while one can debate how different Rudd is from Hulls, they both belong to a party that is bent on activism and social engineering. And the Labor Party is far more than just Rudd.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

]]> By: David Palmer http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/09/21/our-leaders-need-to-walk-the-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-155245 David Palmer Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:24:39 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1894#comment-155245 “Until he SHOWS that he is a christian, I am not inclined to believe that he is.” There is an excellent interview with Michael Horton in the September edition of Australian Presbyterian in which Horton is questioned on his newest book, “Christless Christianity”. Horton makes the point that contra the view that believing the Gospel is the easy part of being a Christian (compared to walking the talk), in fact our default position is that of moralism and rejection of the Gospel. Horton goes on to say regarding believers, "(moralism) is the spiritual sewage that has to be flushed out of us every day until we die" (http://ap.org.au/images/2009AP/AP0909.pdf, p4f) Whether Rudd is a christian or not, I don’t know, though someone I know, whose opinion I respect, assures me on the basis of conversation with Rudd, that he is. What I do know is that it doesn’t matter what I believe about Rudd’s status as a Christian, what matters is God’s verdict. As a believer I am glad that my acceptance with God depends solely on the doing and dying of Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God and not upon who I am, what I say or do. If it did, I know I would be in deep trouble. This thread is full of condemnation for Rudd. Personally, I am grateful that Rudd, however deeply flawed as a Christian he might be, is nevertheless our Prime Minister and not some Hulls like clone which we might have got, or still may get if Rudd falls over. David Palmer “Until he SHOWS that he is a christian, I am not inclined to believe that he is.”

There is an excellent interview with Michael Horton in the September edition of Australian Presbyterian in which Horton is questioned on his newest book, “Christless Christianity”. Horton makes the point that contra the view that believing the Gospel is the easy part of being a Christian (compared to walking the talk), in fact our default position is that of moralism and rejection of the Gospel. Horton goes on to say regarding believers, “(moralism) is the spiritual sewage that has to be flushed out of us every day until we die” (ap.org.au/images/2009AP/AP0909.pdf, p4f)

Whether Rudd is a christian or not, I don’t know, though someone I know, whose opinion I respect, assures me on the basis of conversation with Rudd, that he is.

What I do know is that it doesn’t matter what I believe about Rudd’s status as a Christian, what matters is God’s verdict.

As a believer I am glad that my acceptance with God depends solely on the doing and dying of Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God and not upon who I am, what I say or do. If it did, I know I would be in deep trouble.

This thread is full of condemnation for Rudd. Personally, I am grateful that Rudd, however deeply flawed as a Christian he might be, is nevertheless our Prime Minister and not some Hulls like clone which we might have got, or still may get if Rudd falls over.

David Palmer

]]> By: John Thomas http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/09/21/our-leaders-need-to-walk-the-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-155197 John Thomas Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:32:40 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1894#comment-155197 What really gets me - and I don't think anyone has referred to this, here - is the saying of "Oh God!" all the time, and, worse "Oh my God!". My guess is that the people who say "Oh my God!" don't actually have a god - unless it's themselves ... If you reserve the word "god" - as I'm sure Bill will agree - for the real God, then the real God will be real to you. John Thomas, UK What really gets me – and I don’t think anyone has referred to this, here – is the saying of “Oh God!” all the time, and, worse “Oh my God!”. My guess is that the people who say “Oh my God!” don’t actually have a god – unless it’s themselves … If you reserve the word “god” – as I’m sure Bill will agree – for the real God, then the real God will be real to you.
John Thomas, UK

]]> By: John Snowden http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/09/21/our-leaders-need-to-walk-the-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-155185 John Snowden Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:27:59 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1894#comment-155185 I think swearing can be a form of conformity, of being an insider. When I was a boy my good Methodist mother forbade me to swear and I dutifully obeyed for years. However at school I came under strong pressure to use foul language like others. Eventually I caved in but even then there were words I stubbornly refused to utter. With adulthood I more or less returned to sedate language. Foul language can be very aggressive and intimidating. Probably Rudd uses bad language to get his way most of which of course is in private. A man can have worse faults. The main thing to remember is that a nation that foolishly elects a Smiley Face as its leader in the age of the Internet gets the showy emptiness that it deserves. John Snowden I think swearing can be a form of conformity, of being an insider. When I was a boy my good Methodist mother forbade me to swear and I dutifully obeyed for years. However at school I came under strong pressure to use foul language like others. Eventually I caved in but even then there were words I stubbornly refused to utter. With adulthood I more or less returned to sedate language.

Foul language can be very aggressive and intimidating. Probably Rudd uses bad language to get his way most of which of course is in private. A man can have worse faults. The main thing to remember is that a nation that foolishly elects a Smiley Face as its leader in the age of the Internet gets the showy emptiness that it deserves.

John Snowden

]]> By: Des Morris http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/09/21/our-leaders-need-to-walk-the-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-155182 Des Morris Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:52:32 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1894#comment-155182 Bill Clinton by mistake or freudian slip called him Mr Rude. Des Morris Bill Clinton by mistake or freudian slip called him Mr Rude.
Des Morris

]]> By: Roger Marks http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/09/21/our-leaders-need-to-walk-the-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-155129 Roger Marks Wed, 23 Sep 2009 01:47:19 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1894#comment-155129 When a person calls himself a christian, I look to see what he or she does as the Word says "by their fruits you shall know them." It also teaches that our speech should be with all grace. Kevin Rudd either hasn't discovered this yet or he chooses to ignore it as he chooses to ignore the fact that funding abortion is funding murder. As yet I haven't seen anything that convinces me that he is a christian. Going to church doesn't make you a christian no more than sleeping in a garage makes you a car. I notice that his story is he was a catholic and became an anglican to please his wife, not to please God. No mention of conversion. In a forum with christians he evaded giving a direct answer about being born again. Until he SHOWS that he is a christian, I am not inclined to believe that he is. I have written to him and told him that I am not impressed with his language as it relfects badly on christianity. I don't expect a reply as I have sent him nearly 50 emails and have not had one reply. Roger Marks When a person calls himself a christian, I look to see what he or she does as the Word says “by their fruits you shall know them.”

It also teaches that our speech should be with all grace. Kevin Rudd either hasn’t discovered this yet or he chooses to ignore it as he chooses to ignore the fact that funding abortion is funding murder.

As yet I haven’t seen anything that convinces me that he is a christian. Going to church doesn’t make you a christian no more than sleeping in a garage makes you a car.

I notice that his story is he was a catholic and became an anglican to please his wife, not to please God. No mention of conversion.

In a forum with christians he evaded giving a direct answer about being born again.

Until he SHOWS that he is a christian, I am not inclined to believe that he is. I have written to him and told him that I am not impressed with his language as it relfects badly on christianity. I don’t expect a reply as I have sent him nearly 50 emails and have not had one reply.

Roger Marks

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