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	<title>Comments on: The Church and Self-Esteem</title>
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	<description>Bill Muehlenberg&#039;s commentary on issues of the day...</description>
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		<title>By: David Skinner</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/08/23/the-church-and-self-esteem/comment-page-1/#comment-151952</link>
		<dc:creator>David Skinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>http://www.breakpoint.org/features-columns/articles/12318-radical-moderate-god

David Skinner UK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.breakpoint.org/features-columns/articles/12318-radical-moderate-god" rel="nofollow">www.breakpoint.org/features-columns/articles/12318-radical-moderate-god</a></p>
<p>David Skinner UK</p>
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		<title>By: Leon Brooks</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/08/23/the-church-and-self-esteem/comment-page-1/#comment-151864</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon Brooks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1827#comment-151864</guid>
		<description>John Angelico, that old saw you quote was most succintly put as &quot;the good is the enemy of the best.&quot;

Winston &quot;Never give in!&quot; Churchill had an interesting take on that: &quot;Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.&quot; He&#039;s suggesting that not even accepting the bad, let alone the good, is the path to the best.

Bill Cosby&#039;s take at first glance looks like the opposite, but in reality is more thought-provoking than one might assume: &quot;I don&#039;t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody.&quot;

Leon Brooks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Angelico, that old saw you quote was most succintly put as &#8220;the good is the enemy of the best.&#8221;</p>
<p>Winston &#8220;Never give in!&#8221; Churchill had an interesting take on that: &#8220;Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.&#8221; He&#8217;s suggesting that not even accepting the bad, let alone the good, is the path to the best.</p>
<p>Bill Cosby&#8217;s take at first glance looks like the opposite, but in reality is more thought-provoking than one might assume: &#8220;I don&#8217;t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody.&#8221;</p>
<p>Leon Brooks</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Jarrett</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/08/23/the-church-and-self-esteem/comment-page-1/#comment-151828</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Jarrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1827#comment-151828</guid>
		<description>There should be a distinction between public and private morality? That doesn&#039;t make any sense and is entirely counterintuitive. What if a mother chooses that beating her child senseless is the moral good for her child? Of course that same government would no doubt try to intervene... thus affirming a public morality, or violating a private morality.  And Dr. Rake&#039;s comments are slightly disturbing... what is with people thinking they can improve on something that has stood the test of time.
Keith Jarrett</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There should be a distinction between public and private morality? That doesn&#8217;t make any sense and is entirely counterintuitive. What if a mother chooses that beating her child senseless is the moral good for her child? Of course that same government would no doubt try to intervene&#8230; thus affirming a public morality, or violating a private morality.  And Dr. Rake&#8217;s comments are slightly disturbing&#8230; what is with people thinking they can improve on something that has stood the test of time.<br />
Keith Jarrett</p>
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		<title>By: David Skinner</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/08/23/the-church-and-self-esteem/comment-page-1/#comment-151822</link>
		<dc:creator>David Skinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 06:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1827#comment-151822</guid>
		<description>Keith, yes, the dichotomy is nothing less than this dualism of divorcing the real world  from that  of faith and also the public world from that of the private. 

Deuteronomy 29:29 (The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law) is echoed in James 1:22 (Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says).

The dreadful irony, however is that whilst Christians are busily trying to separate matter from spirit, western governments are in effect going in precisely the opposite direction. 

But Mr Brown, with a “clunking fist,” does not hesitate to legislate freedom of thought, freedom of conscience and freedom to debate. Indeed, he has increased the amount of repressive legislation over that introduced by Tony Blair. The history of twelve years of New Labour government has been a frenzied approach to law-making and an obsession with controlling the minutiae of everyday life, where dissent from “another kind of love“ (pansexuality) will now apparently carry a seven year prison sentence. Neither do we see any salvation coming from David Cameron, the leader of the opposition, who has publicly declared that he also will ignore the views of the silent majority and carry on the LGBT programme of oppression against any who oppose them.

The most iniquitous thing about this government is that it has said that there should be a clear distinction between public and private morality; and the ‘real world’ and religion. Whilst the government wants to compartmentalise private and public, and secular and religious it does not hesitate to intrude into every area of our lives; it legislates for every thought, emotion and sneeze. No longer is the Department of Education called as such but, instead, the Department of Children Schools and Families. It has blatantly assumed the role of social engineer and reduced parents to becoming mere operatives. In addition, Dr, Katherine Rake of the government funded Family and Parenting Institute has said,” We want to transform the most intimate and private relations between women and men.” Clearly she thinks that she is God Almighty, for only He has the power and authority to transform sinners into saved men and women.  

David Skinner, UK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keith, yes, the dichotomy is nothing less than this dualism of divorcing the real world  from that  of faith and also the public world from that of the private. </p>
<p>Deuteronomy 29:29 (The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law) is echoed in James 1:22 (Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says).</p>
<p>The dreadful irony, however is that whilst Christians are busily trying to separate matter from spirit, western governments are in effect going in precisely the opposite direction. </p>
<p>But Mr Brown, with a “clunking fist,” does not hesitate to legislate freedom of thought, freedom of conscience and freedom to debate. Indeed, he has increased the amount of repressive legislation over that introduced by Tony Blair. The history of twelve years of New Labour government has been a frenzied approach to law-making and an obsession with controlling the minutiae of everyday life, where dissent from “another kind of love“ (pansexuality) will now apparently carry a seven year prison sentence. Neither do we see any salvation coming from David Cameron, the leader of the opposition, who has publicly declared that he also will ignore the views of the silent majority and carry on the LGBT programme of oppression against any who oppose them.</p>
<p>The most iniquitous thing about this government is that it has said that there should be a clear distinction between public and private morality; and the ‘real world’ and religion. Whilst the government wants to compartmentalise private and public, and secular and religious it does not hesitate to intrude into every area of our lives; it legislates for every thought, emotion and sneeze. No longer is the Department of Education called as such but, instead, the Department of Children Schools and Families. It has blatantly assumed the role of social engineer and reduced parents to becoming mere operatives. In addition, Dr, Katherine Rake of the government funded Family and Parenting Institute has said,” We want to transform the most intimate and private relations between women and men.” Clearly she thinks that she is God Almighty, for only He has the power and authority to transform sinners into saved men and women.  </p>
<p>David Skinner, UK</p>
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		<title>By: Stan Fishley</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/08/23/the-church-and-self-esteem/comment-page-1/#comment-151794</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Fishley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1827#comment-151794</guid>
		<description>Hitler was full of self-esteem. Yes yes yes, I know this will be unpacked to show that he appeared to be but was not.
Stan Fishley</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hitler was full of self-esteem. Yes yes yes, I know this will be unpacked to show that he appeared to be but was not.<br />
Stan Fishley</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Jarrett</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/08/23/the-church-and-self-esteem/comment-page-1/#comment-151788</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Jarrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1827#comment-151788</guid>
		<description>It could be said perhaps that those early disciples had their minds transformed as well as their hearts. The imminent return of Jesus was a reality for them, no? On a talk I heard the other day John Stonestreet addressed his youth audience and told them that he believes many Christians today are naturalists with a Christian twist. I think the point he was trying to make was that many believers (especially my generation) feel that their believe in Jesus Christ is against all reason, and they need more &#039;faith&#039; to combat this dichotomy that has formed in their mind, between the &#039;real world&#039; and &#039;their beliefs&#039;.
Perhaps this is why it is no wonder people are not becoming spiritually mature, because of this dichotomy and the misunderstanding of faith and spiritual growth?

Good article Bill, right on the money (sic)!

Keith Jarrett</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It could be said perhaps that those early disciples had their minds transformed as well as their hearts. The imminent return of Jesus was a reality for them, no? On a talk I heard the other day John Stonestreet addressed his youth audience and told them that he believes many Christians today are naturalists with a Christian twist. I think the point he was trying to make was that many believers (especially my generation) feel that their believe in Jesus Christ is against all reason, and they need more &#8216;faith&#8217; to combat this dichotomy that has formed in their mind, between the &#8216;real world&#8217; and &#8216;their beliefs&#8217;.<br />
Perhaps this is why it is no wonder people are not becoming spiritually mature, because of this dichotomy and the misunderstanding of faith and spiritual growth?</p>
<p>Good article Bill, right on the money (sic)!</p>
<p>Keith Jarrett</p>
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		<title>By: David Skinner</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/08/23/the-church-and-self-esteem/comment-page-1/#comment-151762</link>
		<dc:creator>David Skinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:07:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1827#comment-151762</guid>
		<description>Lou, I just wish to clarify something. 

I have always assumed that Jesus Christ invites us to die to ourselves and to somehow enter into his suffering. Our living sacrifice is necessary but is only made acceptable because Christ has done it perfectly for us first.  Surely this is what repentance and baptism signifies. But even this we are able to do only through God’s grace - the gift of being able to repent. I suppose one would call this the “feel bad” factor.

Romans 8: 17 “Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.”

I have also assumed that Christ came to free us not to just sit around but to be free now to obey his commands and free to be work out our own salvation and sanctification. He came to free us so that we might do greater works even than his works (apart from the one work that was unique to him); John 14:12-14 says, “I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.&quot;

John 15:1-8: &quot;I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 
&#039;I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. This is to my Father&#039;s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples&#039;.&quot;

Ephesians 2:10: “For we are God&#039;s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”

1 Corinthians 3:10-15: “By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man&#039;s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.”

1 Peter 1:17 “Since you call on a Father who judges each man&#039;s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear.”

Finally, this can be costly. 2 Timothy 3:12 says “In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.”
 
Davdi Skinner, UK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lou, I just wish to clarify something. </p>
<p>I have always assumed that Jesus Christ invites us to die to ourselves and to somehow enter into his suffering. Our living sacrifice is necessary but is only made acceptable because Christ has done it perfectly for us first.  Surely this is what repentance and baptism signifies. But even this we are able to do only through God’s grace &#8211; the gift of being able to repent. I suppose one would call this the “feel bad” factor.</p>
<p>Romans 8: 17 “Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.”</p>
<p>I have also assumed that Christ came to free us not to just sit around but to be free now to obey his commands and free to be work out our own salvation and sanctification. He came to free us so that we might do greater works even than his works (apart from the one work that was unique to him); John 14:12-14 says, “I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.&#8221;</p>
<p>John 15:1-8: &#8220;I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.<br />
&#8216;I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. This is to my Father&#8217;s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples&#8217;.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ephesians 2:10: “For we are God&#8217;s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”</p>
<p>1 Corinthians 3:10-15: “By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man&#8217;s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.”</p>
<p>1 Peter 1:17 “Since you call on a Father who judges each man&#8217;s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear.”</p>
<p>Finally, this can be costly. 2 Timothy 3:12 says “In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.”</p>
<p>Davdi Skinner, UK</p>
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		<title>By: harrold steward</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/08/23/the-church-and-self-esteem/comment-page-1/#comment-151740</link>
		<dc:creator>harrold steward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1827#comment-151740</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Bill, for showing that we must esteem Christ highly. If HE gives us eternal life, so that we shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck us out of His hand, I thank Him for my well-being. I am secure. 
If his Name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasing Father, Prince of peace, then I have excellent, inexhaustable resources. 
When He said, &#039;All authority is given to me&#039;, His power, liberty, authority, jurisdiction, right and might are conferred on me. I am opulent in eternal value.
He promised to His bride, &#039;My presence shall go with you, and I will give you peace&#039;. I feel comfortable with all that My heavenly husband is to me. I highly esteem HIM. 
Harrold Steward</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Bill, for showing that we must esteem Christ highly. If HE gives us eternal life, so that we shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck us out of His hand, I thank Him for my well-being. I am secure.<br />
If his Name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasing Father, Prince of peace, then I have excellent, inexhaustable resources.<br />
When He said, &#8216;All authority is given to me&#8217;, His power, liberty, authority, jurisdiction, right and might are conferred on me. I am opulent in eternal value.<br />
He promised to His bride, &#8216;My presence shall go with you, and I will give you peace&#8217;. I feel comfortable with all that My heavenly husband is to me. I highly esteem HIM.<br />
Harrold Steward</p>
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		<title>By: Ewan</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/08/23/the-church-and-self-esteem/comment-page-1/#comment-151737</link>
		<dc:creator>Ewan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1827#comment-151737</guid>
		<description>Yes Donna. In fact repentance is an integral part of salvation.

Ewan McDonald.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Donna. In fact repentance is an integral part of salvation.</p>
<p>Ewan McDonald.</p>
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		<title>By: Dunstan Hartley</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/08/23/the-church-and-self-esteem/comment-page-1/#comment-151724</link>
		<dc:creator>Dunstan Hartley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1827#comment-151724</guid>
		<description>Aren&#039;t we forgetting that in the early Church Christians were faced with the prospect of violence and death at any moment. Of course many were called upon to make the ultimate sacrifice for the values they knew were eternal. There is nothing like the prospect of an imminent death to make an individual focus on the things that really matter. The saying: &quot;There are no atheists in foxholes&quot; comes to mind.
Dunstan Hartley</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aren&#8217;t we forgetting that in the early Church Christians were faced with the prospect of violence and death at any moment. Of course many were called upon to make the ultimate sacrifice for the values they knew were eternal. There is nothing like the prospect of an imminent death to make an individual focus on the things that really matter. The saying: &#8220;There are no atheists in foxholes&#8221; comes to mind.<br />
Dunstan Hartley</p>
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