Comments on: Child Abuse and Family Structure http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/21/child-abuse-and-family-structure/ Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day... Sat, 11 Feb 2012 02:03:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Peter Coventry http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/21/child-abuse-and-family-structure/comment-page-1/#comment-148153 Peter Coventry Wed, 22 Jul 2009 13:02:18 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1768#comment-148153 I imagine that those who contribute to this website are not representative of the mostly gullible public who swallow the knee jerk bandaid solutions which the Government will offer. I suspect that our political leaders are not as stupid as they appear to be but simply pragmatic. What politician in their right mind will stand up and say that the solution to social problems such as this might take generations to resolve, even if the political will can be found. In this world of instant gratification they must at least appear to be doing something and this becomes more apparent as we get closer to election time. The vast majority of the general public have very short memories and cannot connecting events that took place decades ago manifesting as today's problems, for which we now reap the bitter harvest. Sadly, there is no "quick fix". Peter Coventry I imagine that those who contribute to this website are not representative of the mostly gullible public who swallow the knee jerk bandaid solutions which the Government will offer. I suspect that our political leaders are not as stupid as they appear to be but simply pragmatic. What politician in their right mind will stand up and say that the solution to social problems such as this might take generations to resolve, even if the political will can be found. In this world of instant gratification they must at least appear to be doing something and this becomes more apparent as we get closer to election time. The vast majority of the general public have very short memories and cannot connecting events that took place decades ago manifesting as today’s problems, for which we now reap the bitter harvest. Sadly, there is no “quick fix”.
Peter Coventry

]]> By: david skinner http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/21/child-abuse-and-family-structure/comment-page-1/#comment-148150 david skinner Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:54:58 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1768#comment-148150 John Snowdon, I don‘t know if you read my link above to the story of Colm Ogorman, but he in his own words describes the classic route to being oriented towards same sex attraction. I would say it was a blue print. However, coming at it from a biological route, just in the same way that all of us, due to our temperaments, and yes, perhaps our genetic make-ups are more prone to certain weaknesses than others, there may well be a case for saying it is also nature as well as nurture. For instance I have heard that some people have become alcoholic almost from the first time they tasted alcohol. Whereas for others, no matter how much they might imbibe, it does not result in addiction. The fact is that we all have our weaknesses and susceptibilities, in the same way we all have our strengths, which obviously must be something to do with our genetic make-up. Whatever, we do not encourage alcoholics just because it is their nature. They need to get healed. David Skinner, UK John Snowdon, I don‘t know if you read my link above to the story of Colm Ogorman, but he in his own words describes the classic route to being oriented towards same sex attraction. I would say it was a blue print.
However, coming at it from a biological route, just in the same way that all of us, due to our temperaments, and yes, perhaps our genetic make-ups are more prone to certain weaknesses than others, there may well be a case for saying it is also nature as well as nurture. For instance I have heard that some people have become alcoholic almost from the first time they tasted alcohol. Whereas for others, no matter how much they might imbibe, it does not result in addiction. The fact is that we all have our weaknesses and susceptibilities, in the same way we all have our strengths, which obviously must be something to do with our genetic make-up. Whatever, we do not encourage alcoholics just because it is their nature. They need to get healed.

David Skinner, UK

]]> By: John Snowden http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/21/child-abuse-and-family-structure/comment-page-1/#comment-148143 John Snowden Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:23:26 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1768#comment-148143 Thank you David Skinner, you have hit the nail on the head: "becomes incandescent with rage if anyone associates higher incidence of paedophilia with 'homosexuals'.” I myself have been abused and libelled for suggesting that connection. Yet the evidence is there, in public. NAMBLA representatives have marched in Gay "Pride" parades, for example, with the approval of the organisers. The evidence goes on and on. Years ago while browsing in a bookstore I found a guide to gay Amsterdam that explicitly advertised where to find boys. I have seen a homosexual journal that approvingly advertised the works of the Dutch paedophile advocate Brongersma. John Snowden Thank you David Skinner, you have hit the nail on the head: “becomes incandescent with rage if anyone associates higher incidence of paedophilia with ‘homosexuals’.”

I myself have been abused and libelled for suggesting that connection. Yet the evidence is there, in public. NAMBLA representatives have marched in Gay “Pride” parades, for example, with the approval of the organisers. The evidence goes on and on. Years ago while browsing in a bookstore I found a guide to gay Amsterdam that explicitly advertised where to find boys. I have seen a homosexual journal that approvingly advertised the works of the Dutch paedophile advocate Brongersma.

John Snowden

]]> By: John Snowden http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/21/child-abuse-and-family-structure/comment-page-1/#comment-148141 John Snowden Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:12:23 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1768#comment-148141 Ewan: "To John Snowden, I thought it was fairly well documented that being abused as children is a major contributing factor in both men and women becoming homosexual. Perhaps Bill can provide some sources?" All we have is a striking correlation that needs explaining. Correlation is not causality. A posssibility is that most of the victims were effeminate as children and as such unduly attracted the attentions of homosexual molesters. Not all effeminate boys turn out to be homosexual, of course. Another possibility is that the boys tended to have passive personality styles, or were perceived as such, passivity being a stereotyped feminine trait. If you say that molestation in childhood is causally linked to homosexuality in adulthood then you have to explain why some molestations do not have that outcome. Another interesting fact that needs explaining is that the ratio of homosexual males in societies tends to be only a few percent and is always higher than the female rate (roughly twice). If this is constant cross-culturally in general populations then a genetic or biological explanation becomes plausible. You might wish to conduct a thought experiment where you imagine different societies with progressively higher levels of exclusive homosexuality. Clearly at some point society would cease to be viable. Perhaps there are hidden biological factors keeping ratios down to limits Nature finds tolerable. Personally I think biology rules our personalities and our social structure more than most folk care to imagine. Finally, I would like to say that I am dissatisfied with most discussions of the subject. Hardly anyone is prepared to analyse the sexual behavioural repertoire and determine the causes, functions and personality correlates. Instead all we get is sanitised, abstract, distancing talk about rights and identity. John Snowden Ewan: “To John Snowden, I thought it was fairly well documented that being abused as children is a major contributing factor in both men and women becoming homosexual. Perhaps Bill can provide some sources?”

All we have is a striking correlation that needs explaining. Correlation is not causality. A posssibility is that most of the victims were effeminate as children and as such unduly attracted the attentions of homosexual molesters. Not all effeminate boys turn out to be homosexual, of course. Another possibility is that the boys tended to have passive personality styles, or were perceived as such, passivity being a stereotyped feminine trait. If you say that molestation in childhood is causally linked to homosexuality in adulthood then you have to explain why some molestations do not have that outcome.

Another interesting fact that needs explaining is that the ratio of homosexual males in societies tends to be only a few percent and is always higher than the female rate (roughly twice). If this is constant cross-culturally in general populations then a genetic or biological explanation becomes plausible. You might wish to conduct a thought experiment where you imagine different societies with progressively higher levels of exclusive homosexuality. Clearly at some point society would cease to be viable. Perhaps there are hidden biological factors keeping ratios down to limits Nature finds tolerable. Personally I think biology rules our personalities and our social structure more than most folk care to imagine.

Finally, I would like to say that I am dissatisfied with most discussions of the subject. Hardly anyone is prepared to analyse the sexual behavioural repertoire and determine the causes, functions and personality correlates. Instead all we get is sanitised, abstract, distancing talk about rights and identity.

John Snowden

]]> By: david skinner http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/21/child-abuse-and-family-structure/comment-page-1/#comment-148131 david skinner Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:20:18 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1768#comment-148131 In Ireland there has recently been exposed the mass, systemic abuse by catholic priests and nuns of children. Colm OGorman who was a victim of one, father Fortune, recounts his terrifying ordeal at the hands of this paedophile, in his book, Beyond Belief. The article below describes the classic root for a child being “nurtured” to becoming orientated to same gender sex. What is tragic is that although OGorman rails against the injustice that he had to put up with, he is himself a “homosexual” and becomes incandescent with rage if anyone associates higher incidence of paedophilia with “homosexuals.” No wonder, for in the article below it says “In the years since, O'Gorman's life has moved on. He has been with his partner, Paul, for 10 years now. He is legal guardian of two children, aged 12 and 10, after their mother, a close friend, died.” http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/spectrum/Colm-OGorman-interview-Conspiracy-of.5249706.jp David Skinner, UK In Ireland there has recently been exposed the mass, systemic abuse by catholic priests and nuns of children. Colm OGorman who was a victim of one, father Fortune, recounts his terrifying ordeal at the hands of this paedophile, in his book, Beyond Belief. The article below describes the classic root for a child being “nurtured” to becoming orientated to same gender sex. What is tragic is that although OGorman rails against the injustice that he had to put up with, he is himself a “homosexual” and becomes incandescent with rage if anyone associates higher incidence of paedophilia with “homosexuals.”

No wonder, for in the article below it says “In the years since, O’Gorman’s life has moved on. He has been with his partner, Paul, for 10 years now. He is legal guardian of two children, aged 12 and 10, after their mother, a close friend, died.”

scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/spectrum/Colm-OGorman-interview-Conspiracy-of.5249706.jp

David Skinner, UK

]]> By: John Thomas http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/21/child-abuse-and-family-structure/comment-page-1/#comment-148126 John Thomas Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:39:39 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1768#comment-148126 Thanks for the reference, Bill. John Thomas, UK Thanks for the reference, Bill.
John Thomas, UK

]]> By: Roger Marks http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/21/child-abuse-and-family-structure/comment-page-1/#comment-148112 Roger Marks Wed, 22 Jul 2009 06:03:12 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1768#comment-148112 Our MPs must be complete idiots if they can't see the obvious. What do they do all day. Drink tea and play pool? Oh, I know. Think up a bag of lies (spin) to hide reality. When statistics like these are ignored, we don't have a democracy we have an oligarchy and the few are politicians featheirng their nests and homos who are dedicated to producing a society in their own image. Bill, your article should be sent to every MP and ask for their comment on the issue. That way we will find out who the morons are. Let me assure everyone that I say all this in love, for the children that are abused. Roger Marks Our MPs must be complete idiots if they can’t see the obvious. What do they do all day. Drink tea and play pool? Oh, I know. Think up a bag of lies (spin) to hide reality.

When statistics like these are ignored, we don’t have a democracy we have an oligarchy and the few are politicians featheirng their nests and homos who are dedicated to producing a society in their own image.

Bill, your article should be sent to every MP and ask for their comment on the issue. That way we will find out who the morons are.

Let me assure everyone that I say all this in love, for the children that are abused.

Roger Marks

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/21/child-abuse-and-family-structure/comment-page-1/#comment-148089 Bill Muehlenberg Wed, 22 Jul 2009 02:35:20 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1768#comment-148089 Thanks Ewan Yes much research has verified this fact. As but one example, a major review of the child molestation literature as it appears in medical and psychological journals concluded that between 25 and 40 per cent of all recorded child molestation was homosexual in nature. And Donna above provides a link to a helpful research article on all this. Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks Ewan

Yes much research has verified this fact. As but one example, a major review of the child molestation literature as it appears in medical and psychological journals concluded that between 25 and 40 per cent of all recorded child molestation was homosexual in nature.

And Donna above provides a link to a helpful research article on all this.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

]]> By: Ewan http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/21/child-abuse-and-family-structure/comment-page-1/#comment-148020 Ewan Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:35:05 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1768#comment-148020 To John Snowden, I thought it was fairly well documented that being abused as children is a major contributing factor in both men and women becoming homosexual. Perhaps Bill can provide some sources? Ewan McDonald. To John Snowden, I thought it was fairly well documented that being abused as children is a major contributing factor in both men and women becoming homosexual. Perhaps Bill can provide some sources?

Ewan McDonald.

]]> By: Ewan http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/21/child-abuse-and-family-structure/comment-page-1/#comment-148019 Ewan Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:29:47 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1768#comment-148019 A shorter response to the Bettina Arndt position on abortion mentioned above would be to point out that abortion is the ultimate child abuse! Ewan McDonald. A shorter response to the Bettina Arndt position on abortion mentioned above would be to point out that abortion is the ultimate child abuse!

Ewan McDonald.

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