I know nothing about the individuals involved, and simply relied on media reports, and the images they used. If the photos were a mismatch, then I offer my apologies. But I believe my point remains. I would suspect that the B4 would concur with the sentiments of these posters, and may even have used them themselves in the past. Either way, their symbolic protest actions would still in my mind be an example of pretentious clichés, and not genuine moral clarity.

Yes I think just war principles can still hold today, and I would have thought one recent example would have been the war of liberation to free Kuwait from Iraqi aggression. But bear in mind that in a fallen world, there will be no perfect just war, just as there will be no perfect expression of pacifism.

In a fallen world, there will always be tensions between biblical values, such as justice, peace, righteousness and holiness. In the same way, there will be no perfect expression of the church, or even of individual Christianity. Thus the job of seeking to see the will of God realised on earth as it is in heaven will always be partial, incomplete and less than perfect. But we must try nonetheless.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

It saddens me to find that this issue is being debated in the way. Bill, I think you would find behind at least two of the Christians involved in this action a substantial contribution to complex thinking on these issues.

I also couldn’t find a picture of the Bonhoeffer 4 holding that particular banner anywhere. I did however see an image of Ciaron O’Reilly and Jim Dowling holding the banner. I wonder if maybe you’ve got your wires crossed?

Emma Palandri

Just one quick response. Christians who recognise that in a fallen world war may be the lesser of several evils do not have a “reliance on war”. In fact, a main principle of jus ad bellum (justice in going to war), of traditional just war theory, is that of last resort, that is, all peaceful means have been exhausted before going to war. So this has nothing to do with relying on war, but acknowledging that the principle of justice is equally important as that of peace, and sometimes to maintain the peace and preserve justice, one must go to war.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

I was largely responding to comments such as yours, and should have been clearer. Of course, I understand your frustration with Christians who feel more comfortable on the left side of politics (though I would argue that the terms “left” and “right” are far too simplistic to describe political leanings), but I still cannot criticize the attention they give to, say, issues of war and violence, rather than abortion. Are we not to be peacemakers (Matt. 5:9, 43-48)?

That said Ewan, I heartily agree with you (and Bill) when it comes to the religious left’s stance on abortion. Whilst I cannot imagine what many a woman faces when confronted with the option to terminate her child, it is clear that those who are deeply opposed to war and state-sponsored violence are at the same time conspicuous in their silence when it comes to abortion.

Bill – I do agree with you in regards to the charge of moral equivalency (unfortunately, I wasn’t born when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, so I do not know how anti-war activists responded at the time). There is obviously a wide, unbridgeable gulf separating those who target civilians as part of a concerted campaign of terror, and those who employ violence – with its inevitable consequences – to uphold justice, order, peace, etc. Nevertheless, is it not our responsibility as Christians to try and ultimately move beyond a reliance on war, which, despite lofty ideals and unimpeachable motives, can often have disastrous consequences?

Also, I do agree that John the Baptist and Jesus did not seem too troubled by the fact that some who came to them were soldiers. However, I am still not sure whether those passages are to be taken as prescriptive or merely descriptive.

Scott Buchanan

However, they are then required to accept that their freedom comes with the responsibility to accept valid criticism, such as we see in this article, and respond to it.

John Angelico

And even if people have different callings, or specific ministries – although one can ask if there is in fact a divine calling to protest outside military bases – one should still recognise the validity of other callings, including those whom God has called to serve in the military. Just as John the Baptist, Jesus and the early disciples did not denounce those who were in the military (Matt 27:54 (=Mark 15:39; Luke 23:47); Luke 3:14; 7:1-10 (=Matt 8:5-13); Acts 10; Phil 1:13; 4:22), neither should we. We certainly should not be making uncharitable comments such as, ‘seeing soldiers with Bibles makes me sick’.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

Concerning different callings, I do not accept total apathy towards abortion from any Christian regardless of where their primary calling might be. Abortion is such a serious issue it should concern the whole church, and if it did and we saw more opposition to it from those who claim to be Christian then I’m sure the issue could be turned around.

Ewan McDonald.