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	<title>Comments on: Why the Sun is Setting on England</title>
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	<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/02/why-the-sun-is-setting-on-england/</link>
	<description>Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day...</description>
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		<title>By: Bill Muehlenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/02/why-the-sun-is-setting-on-england/comment-page-1/#comment-148660</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Muehlenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1696#comment-148660</guid>
		<description>Thanks Patricia

Yes you are quite right about “lukewarm and wimpish Christianity” and how it differs from the very public, very vocal, and very bold true church of Christ thoughout the ages.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Patricia</p>
<p>Yes you are quite right about “lukewarm and wimpish Christianity” and how it differs from the very public, very vocal, and very bold true church of Christ thoughout the ages.</p>
<p>Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</p>
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		<title>By: Patricia Halligan</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/02/why-the-sun-is-setting-on-england/comment-page-1/#comment-148656</link>
		<dc:creator>Patricia Halligan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1696#comment-148656</guid>
		<description>Dear Bill, Those of us who still have relatives, friends and acquaintances in the old country know just how hopelessly muddled and confused most of them are when it comes to understanding the nature of their Christian heritage. I have had the experience of gaining a good insight into how some of these lukewarm, so called &#039;Christians&#039; think. They imply that they are Christian but say that Our Lord meant Christianity to be a private thing between oneself and God. It was certainly not meant to be discussed and does not require any outward show of public loyalty like going to church. I always thought that as Christians we were expected to follow Our Lord&#039;s example in every way we can. Didn&#039;t he go very public for three years to show us the best way to live which included going to the synagogue? Wasn&#039;t He cruelly persecuted and died very publicly on a Cross which some Christians are called to do? Didn&#039;t His disciples believe in His Message and Resurrection so much that they too zealously and courageously spread His message to anyone who would listen? Hasn&#039;t it been so down through the centuries? In short if Christianity was meant to be kept to oneself and all Christians had been silent about their faith we in the 21st century would not have inherited anything would we? Strangely though these so called &#039;Christians&#039; are the first to bemoan the fact that Muslims are gradually taking over their country and that their Christian heritage is gradually slipping away from them. Yet they unfairly and irrationally imply that those who they know very well are doing their best to be committed Christians are nothing more than religious fanatics if they dare open their mouths and so much as mention Our Lord, His Blessed Mother, the saints, the Pope etc etc because in their opinion that is preaching and it makes them feel inferior. Religion is like politics they say. It must be the subject of a silence so deathly it cannot be mentioned because it is such a private thing. All I can say is I don&#039;t want anything to do with such a lukewarm and wimpish Christianity which deserves our contempt and what is coming. Sadly, those in England who have loved Our Lord with every fibre of their being and only wanted Him known and loved are going to suffer too. I agree England really does need our prayers. God Bless always and thank you for the article.
Patricia Halligan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Bill, Those of us who still have relatives, friends and acquaintances in the old country know just how hopelessly muddled and confused most of them are when it comes to understanding the nature of their Christian heritage. I have had the experience of gaining a good insight into how some of these lukewarm, so called &#8216;Christians&#8217; think. They imply that they are Christian but say that Our Lord meant Christianity to be a private thing between oneself and God. It was certainly not meant to be discussed and does not require any outward show of public loyalty like going to church. I always thought that as Christians we were expected to follow Our Lord&#8217;s example in every way we can. Didn&#8217;t he go very public for three years to show us the best way to live which included going to the synagogue? Wasn&#8217;t He cruelly persecuted and died very publicly on a Cross which some Christians are called to do? Didn&#8217;t His disciples believe in His Message and Resurrection so much that they too zealously and courageously spread His message to anyone who would listen? Hasn&#8217;t it been so down through the centuries? In short if Christianity was meant to be kept to oneself and all Christians had been silent about their faith we in the 21st century would not have inherited anything would we? Strangely though these so called &#8216;Christians&#8217; are the first to bemoan the fact that Muslims are gradually taking over their country and that their Christian heritage is gradually slipping away from them. Yet they unfairly and irrationally imply that those who they know very well are doing their best to be committed Christians are nothing more than religious fanatics if they dare open their mouths and so much as mention Our Lord, His Blessed Mother, the saints, the Pope etc etc because in their opinion that is preaching and it makes them feel inferior. Religion is like politics they say. It must be the subject of a silence so deathly it cannot be mentioned because it is such a private thing. All I can say is I don&#8217;t want anything to do with such a lukewarm and wimpish Christianity which deserves our contempt and what is coming. Sadly, those in England who have loved Our Lord with every fibre of their being and only wanted Him known and loved are going to suffer too. I agree England really does need our prayers. God Bless always and thank you for the article.<br />
Patricia Halligan</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Maguire</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/02/why-the-sun-is-setting-on-england/comment-page-1/#comment-146674</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Maguire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:55:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1696#comment-146674</guid>
		<description>Sir,

Re. the above story, you must be aware that, prophetically speaking, God will, and does, remove the sceptre from the nation that turns away from Him. He will gives warnings and chances, but if that nation continues to go their own way, doing what is &#039;right in their own eyes&#039;, God will lose patience and, well, that&#039;s when the trouble begins.  

It is only that we are still in the Age of Grace, and the Holy Spirit is not yet removed as Restrainer, and the prayers of the saints (US!!), that things have not yet succumbed fully to the spirit of antichrist, but it&#039;s not far off...

Since 1948, we have lost our major sea gates, as as delineated in the prophetic books of Daniel and Ezekiel, as well as &#039;our&#039; Empire, and are coming under the authority of the EU(SSR). These are the last of the Last Days and the True Christian Church - NOT any given denomination - needs to wake up to the urgency of the days that are coming, as all of the prophetic indicators, as given by Yeshua to the disciples and, later, to John on Patmos, are almost in place.

I may be telling you the &#039;bleedin&#039; obvious&#039;, so to speak, but not many Christians in the world outside of, mainly, the USA, and especially in the UK, don&#039;t know, realise, or understand, due to the non-, poor or woolly level of Biblical teaching, and at a level where people understand - non jargonised or technical/overspiritual in nature. Yeshua used everyday vernacular, allegories and illustration that the people He spoke to understood. The worldwide church necessarily doesn&#039;t, by and large. And it confuses the issues.  

Still, the sun is setting on England? We&#039;re down to near twilight.

Chris Maguire, UK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sir,</p>
<p>Re. the above story, you must be aware that, prophetically speaking, God will, and does, remove the sceptre from the nation that turns away from Him. He will gives warnings and chances, but if that nation continues to go their own way, doing what is &#8216;right in their own eyes&#8217;, God will lose patience and, well, that&#8217;s when the trouble begins.  </p>
<p>It is only that we are still in the Age of Grace, and the Holy Spirit is not yet removed as Restrainer, and the prayers of the saints (US!!), that things have not yet succumbed fully to the spirit of antichrist, but it&#8217;s not far off&#8230;</p>
<p>Since 1948, we have lost our major sea gates, as as delineated in the prophetic books of Daniel and Ezekiel, as well as &#8216;our&#8217; Empire, and are coming under the authority of the EU(SSR). These are the last of the Last Days and the True Christian Church &#8211; NOT any given denomination &#8211; needs to wake up to the urgency of the days that are coming, as all of the prophetic indicators, as given by Yeshua to the disciples and, later, to John on Patmos, are almost in place.</p>
<p>I may be telling you the &#8216;bleedin&#8217; obvious&#8217;, so to speak, but not many Christians in the world outside of, mainly, the USA, and especially in the UK, don&#8217;t know, realise, or understand, due to the non-, poor or woolly level of Biblical teaching, and at a level where people understand &#8211; non jargonised or technical/overspiritual in nature. Yeshua used everyday vernacular, allegories and illustration that the people He spoke to understood. The worldwide church necessarily doesn&#8217;t, by and large. And it confuses the issues.  </p>
<p>Still, the sun is setting on England? We&#8217;re down to near twilight.</p>
<p>Chris Maguire, UK</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Webb</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/02/why-the-sun-is-setting-on-england/comment-page-1/#comment-146130</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Webb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1696#comment-146130</guid>
		<description>Dear Lou

Yes the Lord loves us first even whilst we were still in our sins and He died for us on Calvary.  That however is only the beginning.  We are not puppets or play actors upon the stage an God doesn&#039;t keep slaves.  What God also has done as well as die for us is to give us freedom to love each other and to love Him.  The Lord says &quot;if you love me you will keep my commandments&quot;.  Now many people takes these as &#039;rules&#039; and say the commandments are not necessary but the Lord also said that He came NOT to &#039;remove one jot or tittle&#039; and in another place the Lord says &#039;those who relax the law will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven&#039;.  So I know that the Catholic Church teaches thse things, along with many of the mainstream denominations more or less.  There is a &quot;prescriptive sense&quot; in following the Lord and for the yoke to be light we follow the commandments in the new Spirit of discipleship as shown to us by Our Lord Jesus in His words and example.

Michael Webb</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Lou</p>
<p>Yes the Lord loves us first even whilst we were still in our sins and He died for us on Calvary.  That however is only the beginning.  We are not puppets or play actors upon the stage an God doesn&#8217;t keep slaves.  What God also has done as well as die for us is to give us freedom to love each other and to love Him.  The Lord says &#8220;if you love me you will keep my commandments&#8221;.  Now many people takes these as &#8216;rules&#8217; and say the commandments are not necessary but the Lord also said that He came NOT to &#8216;remove one jot or tittle&#8217; and in another place the Lord says &#8216;those who relax the law will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven&#8217;.  So I know that the Catholic Church teaches thse things, along with many of the mainstream denominations more or less.  There is a &#8220;prescriptive sense&#8221; in following the Lord and for the yoke to be light we follow the commandments in the new Spirit of discipleship as shown to us by Our Lord Jesus in His words and example.</p>
<p>Michael Webb</p>
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		<title>By: Lou d'Alpuget</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/02/why-the-sun-is-setting-on-england/comment-page-1/#comment-146107</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou d'Alpuget</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 02:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1696#comment-146107</guid>
		<description>Dear Bill,
              You&#039;ve just got to love those atheists.They are rejecting the same god that I reject. I don&#039;t believe in the god they don&#039;t believe in either. You know, the religious one who sets all the rules you have to live by. Trouble is, all the religions have different rules, especially supposed christianity which has over 2000 proestant denominations alone. No wonder confusion reigns supreme, and not only among atheists, but most people in general. People are so confused they will follow any old dogma instead of seeking out the truth. It is much easier to just follow the rules-just tell me what I have to do and then leave me alone! But, Christianity is not following a bunch of rules in some prescriptive sense. This is what sets true Christianity apart from all religions, including what passes for christianity for most people.
         Jesus said that His yoke is easy and His burden light. What does that mean? It means that as we let THEM (Father,Son and Holy Spirit) loves us, as we accept that we are fully accepted already in Jesus, as we allow ourselves to be led by the Holy Spirit, as we seek relationship with THEM, as we realise we are already adopted into THEIR family, fully reconciled (with shalom), sons and daughters who cannot unson or undaughter themselves-in other words repent (greek metanoia-to change our mind), we will naturally tend towards Christlike behaviour as a description of what the Holy Spirit does in our lives. And of course, Jesus kept the law. But only in terms of the full face to face relationship He has with His Father in and throught he Holy Spirit.
   This is not the god athesits are rejecting. They are rejecting the false ones because religion has confused them. My prayer is that the Holy Spirit will lead them to the truth, who just happens to be a man-Jesus Christ, the God become man!
Blessings to you all,
Lou d&#039;Alpuget</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Bill,<br />
              You&#8217;ve just got to love those atheists.They are rejecting the same god that I reject. I don&#8217;t believe in the god they don&#8217;t believe in either. You know, the religious one who sets all the rules you have to live by. Trouble is, all the religions have different rules, especially supposed christianity which has over 2000 proestant denominations alone. No wonder confusion reigns supreme, and not only among atheists, but most people in general. People are so confused they will follow any old dogma instead of seeking out the truth. It is much easier to just follow the rules-just tell me what I have to do and then leave me alone! But, Christianity is not following a bunch of rules in some prescriptive sense. This is what sets true Christianity apart from all religions, including what passes for christianity for most people.<br />
         Jesus said that His yoke is easy and His burden light. What does that mean? It means that as we let THEM (Father,Son and Holy Spirit) loves us, as we accept that we are fully accepted already in Jesus, as we allow ourselves to be led by the Holy Spirit, as we seek relationship with THEM, as we realise we are already adopted into THEIR family, fully reconciled (with shalom), sons and daughters who cannot unson or undaughter themselves-in other words repent (greek metanoia-to change our mind), we will naturally tend towards Christlike behaviour as a description of what the Holy Spirit does in our lives. And of course, Jesus kept the law. But only in terms of the full face to face relationship He has with His Father in and throught he Holy Spirit.<br />
   This is not the god athesits are rejecting. They are rejecting the false ones because religion has confused them. My prayer is that the Holy Spirit will lead them to the truth, who just happens to be a man-Jesus Christ, the God become man!<br />
Blessings to you all,<br />
Lou d&#8217;Alpuget</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Lewis</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/02/why-the-sun-is-setting-on-england/comment-page-1/#comment-145792</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 12:49:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1696#comment-145792</guid>
		<description>John said &quot;One day a piece of shrapnel flew through their window and buried itself in their wall. Derek examined it and found that it was from a British-made shell! He wrote “An Open Letter From Jerusalem” challenging the hypocrisy of British policies concerning the region.&quot;

I think God is allowing Britain to come under the yoke of the Arabs because she dealt treacherously with Isreal after the war. It seems to be God&#039;s way of dealing with nations that work against Him but He will strengthen His Church in these trying times and She will shine like a jewel in the midst of all this darkness. Keith Lewis, Ballarat</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John said &#8220;One day a piece of shrapnel flew through their window and buried itself in their wall. Derek examined it and found that it was from a British-made shell! He wrote “An Open Letter From Jerusalem” challenging the hypocrisy of British policies concerning the region.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think God is allowing Britain to come under the yoke of the Arabs because she dealt treacherously with Isreal after the war. It seems to be God&#8217;s way of dealing with nations that work against Him but He will strengthen His Church in these trying times and She will shine like a jewel in the midst of all this darkness. Keith Lewis, Ballarat</p>
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		<title>By: John Angelico</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/02/why-the-sun-is-setting-on-england/comment-page-1/#comment-145788</link>
		<dc:creator>John Angelico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 12:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1696#comment-145788</guid>
		<description>As I continue to read the biography of the late Derek Prince, I am struck by occasional insights into some of the dilemmas of the present day.

For example, as the Prince family hold on in Jerusalem during early 1948 the sectarian fighting over the establishment of the State of Israel brought home to Derek some startling truths about his own country&#039;s culpability.

One day a piece of shrapnel flew through their window and buried itself in their wall. Derek examined it and found that it was from a British-made shell! He wrote &quot;An Open Letter From Jerusalem&quot; challenging the hypocrisy of British policies concerning the region.

The biography goes on to say (p166)
&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;By favouring the Arabs, Britain had betrayed the Jews, betrayed the UN, and betrayed her own citizens, he believed...He began to believe that if England did not repent of her treatment of the Jews, she would lose her empire and, worse, lose the blessing of God.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Point to ponder: The Empire is certainly gone, and the Commonwealth is a hollow shell. Is Britain now suffering the consequences of policies put in place long ago which, despite the liberation of the land in WW1 and the Balfour Declaration, have been most often against the Jews, rather than for them?

Whilst everyone has had to deal with the Arab nations too, it is clear that US policies declare them to be a friend to Israel, in a way that Britain&#039;s policies don&#039;t.

John Angelico</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I continue to read the biography of the late Derek Prince, I am struck by occasional insights into some of the dilemmas of the present day.</p>
<p>For example, as the Prince family hold on in Jerusalem during early 1948 the sectarian fighting over the establishment of the State of Israel brought home to Derek some startling truths about his own country&#8217;s culpability.</p>
<p>One day a piece of shrapnel flew through their window and buried itself in their wall. Derek examined it and found that it was from a British-made shell! He wrote &#8220;An Open Letter From Jerusalem&#8221; challenging the hypocrisy of British policies concerning the region.</p>
<p>The biography goes on to say (p166)</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;By favouring the Arabs, Britain had betrayed the Jews, betrayed the UN, and betrayed her own citizens, he believed&#8230;He began to believe that if England did not repent of her treatment of the Jews, she would lose her empire and, worse, lose the blessing of God.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Point to ponder: The Empire is certainly gone, and the Commonwealth is a hollow shell. Is Britain now suffering the consequences of policies put in place long ago which, despite the liberation of the land in WW1 and the Balfour Declaration, have been most often against the Jews, rather than for them?</p>
<p>Whilst everyone has had to deal with the Arab nations too, it is clear that US policies declare them to be a friend to Israel, in a way that Britain&#8217;s policies don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>John Angelico</p>
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		<title>By: Tristan Ingle</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/02/why-the-sun-is-setting-on-england/comment-page-1/#comment-145772</link>
		<dc:creator>Tristan Ingle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 08:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1696#comment-145772</guid>
		<description>&quot;It&#039;s OK not to believe in God.&quot;

Alrighty. Are we allowed to doubt Darwin though?

Tristan Ingle, Sydney.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It&#8217;s OK not to believe in God.&#8221;</p>
<p>Alrighty. Are we allowed to doubt Darwin though?</p>
<p>Tristan Ingle, Sydney.</p>
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		<title>By: Garth</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/02/why-the-sun-is-setting-on-england/comment-page-1/#comment-145739</link>
		<dc:creator>Garth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1696#comment-145739</guid>
		<description>Yes, Yarran so true. I suspect that a lot of politics is smoke and mirrors, that the real power moves across parties and brings their will to bear irregardless of the &#039;front&#039; that is the party. Lib vs Lab is not so much the issue as godly vs godless.

And Ewan, you said &quot;A backslidden and lukewarm church is our problem and a revived and on-fire church is the solution.&quot;

Therein lies the truth. Friends, Australia needs to be spiritually revived and *that* will change the course of this country. Not discounting or minimising the importance of political involvement for the Christian, I believe that the answer lies in us truly taking up the Cross and following Christ - throwing our hats entirely into the Kingdom ring - burning our bridges with a worldy life and self interest and being consumed with passion for reaching people with the Good News, in whatever form that takes for what we are called to by God.

“If my people, who are called by My name, will humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.” 2 Chronicles 7:14.

Garth Penglase</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Yarran so true. I suspect that a lot of politics is smoke and mirrors, that the real power moves across parties and brings their will to bear irregardless of the &#8216;front&#8217; that is the party. Lib vs Lab is not so much the issue as godly vs godless.</p>
<p>And Ewan, you said &#8220;A backslidden and lukewarm church is our problem and a revived and on-fire church is the solution.&#8221;</p>
<p>Therein lies the truth. Friends, Australia needs to be spiritually revived and *that* will change the course of this country. Not discounting or minimising the importance of political involvement for the Christian, I believe that the answer lies in us truly taking up the Cross and following Christ &#8211; throwing our hats entirely into the Kingdom ring &#8211; burning our bridges with a worldy life and self interest and being consumed with passion for reaching people with the Good News, in whatever form that takes for what we are called to by God.</p>
<p>“If my people, who are called by My name, will humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.” 2 Chronicles 7:14.</p>
<p>Garth Penglase</p>
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		<title>By: Yarran Johnston</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/07/02/why-the-sun-is-setting-on-england/comment-page-1/#comment-145670</link>
		<dc:creator>Yarran Johnston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1696#comment-145670</guid>
		<description>You beat me to it Ewan, I was about to remark that conservative politics in Australia is also a dead horse. 

If the Liberals cared about conservatism, they would have made someone other than Malcolm Turnbull leader. 

The 07 election was ironic, since both leaders represented the most conservative sectors of their party. But the implication is - Howard is gone and there is no one to take his place. So when the Prime Minister loses either an election or the ALP leadership...what happens then...

The Left of both parties hold hands and walk down the aisle in a political marriage and invisible coalition?

Yarran Johnston</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You beat me to it Ewan, I was about to remark that conservative politics in Australia is also a dead horse. </p>
<p>If the Liberals cared about conservatism, they would have made someone other than Malcolm Turnbull leader. </p>
<p>The 07 election was ironic, since both leaders represented the most conservative sectors of their party. But the implication is &#8211; Howard is gone and there is no one to take his place. So when the Prime Minister loses either an election or the ALP leadership&#8230;what happens then&#8230;</p>
<p>The Left of both parties hold hands and walk down the aisle in a political marriage and invisible coalition?</p>
<p>Yarran Johnston</p>
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