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	<title>Comments on: Paying People to be Responsible</title>
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	<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/06/29/paying-people-to-be-responsible/</link>
	<description>Bill Muehlenberg&#039;s commentary on issues of the day...</description>
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		<title>By: Des Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/06/29/paying-people-to-be-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-145855</link>
		<dc:creator>Des Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 07:23:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1676#comment-145855</guid>
		<description>Thanks Bill for the article and Nathan for the link. I found the article and the comment from Australia interesting – The Professor 8 May 2007. Before paying people to slim we should be encouraging the government to ensure that people are well informed about the food they eat and even banning ingredients such as HFCS.
Des Morris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Bill for the article and Nathan for the link. I found the article and the comment from Australia interesting – The Professor 8 May 2007. Before paying people to slim we should be encouraging the government to ensure that people are well informed about the food they eat and even banning ingredients such as HFCS.<br />
Des Morris</p>
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		<title>By: Stan Fishley</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/06/29/paying-people-to-be-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-145076</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Fishley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1676#comment-145076</guid>
		<description>Murray Adamthwaite, I always find your comments helpful.
Stan Fishley</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Murray Adamthwaite, I always find your comments helpful.<br />
Stan Fishley</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Schellinger</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/06/29/paying-people-to-be-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-145028</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Schellinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1676#comment-145028</guid>
		<description>Just a couple points I&#039;d like to make regarding this article:

First, governments produce no product (or service) for their pay.  All their income is taken forcibly from those who have earned it in the form of various taxes.  Therefore, the government cannot give money to anyone without first taking it from someone else.  So to suggest new subsidies only results in higher taxation of others.

Second, I don&#039;t know about in Australia, but here in America, the primary reason the people are overweight is because all the food has been switched to high fructose corn syrup instead of sugar.  The body cannot properly metabolize HFCS so it just gets stored as fat - even if you exercise.  Its really wicked stuff, and its very cheap and tastes great so there&#039;s a lot of incentive for all food manufacturers to put it in their products.  It also provides a use for all that corn we make here.  In classic &quot;love of money&quot; fashion, the nation has effectively created a health epidemic that also has the wonderful benefit of giving doctors and drug manufacturers an endless supply of unhealthy people to treat.  Believe me, the government doesn&#039;t *want* us to be healthy and fit.

Anyways, I know that has little to do with your article but I thought I should mention it.

For a great article on HFCS, check this out:
http://www.sprol.com/2005/10/high-fructose-corn-syrup

Nathan Schellinger, USA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a couple points I&#8217;d like to make regarding this article:</p>
<p>First, governments produce no product (or service) for their pay.  All their income is taken forcibly from those who have earned it in the form of various taxes.  Therefore, the government cannot give money to anyone without first taking it from someone else.  So to suggest new subsidies only results in higher taxation of others.</p>
<p>Second, I don&#8217;t know about in Australia, but here in America, the primary reason the people are overweight is because all the food has been switched to high fructose corn syrup instead of sugar.  The body cannot properly metabolize HFCS so it just gets stored as fat &#8211; even if you exercise.  Its really wicked stuff, and its very cheap and tastes great so there&#8217;s a lot of incentive for all food manufacturers to put it in their products.  It also provides a use for all that corn we make here.  In classic &#8220;love of money&#8221; fashion, the nation has effectively created a health epidemic that also has the wonderful benefit of giving doctors and drug manufacturers an endless supply of unhealthy people to treat.  Believe me, the government doesn&#8217;t *want* us to be healthy and fit.</p>
<p>Anyways, I know that has little to do with your article but I thought I should mention it.</p>
<p>For a great article on HFCS, check this out:<br />
<a href="http://www.sprol.com/2005/10/high-fructose-corn-syrup" rel="nofollow">www.sprol.com/2005/10/high-fructose-corn-syrup</a></p>
<p>Nathan Schellinger, USA</p>
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		<title>By: John Angelico</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/06/29/paying-people-to-be-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-145017</link>
		<dc:creator>John Angelico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1676#comment-145017</guid>
		<description>Bill, I think I would partly disagree with this aspect:
 
&lt;blockquote&gt;
So by all means bring on the sporting club subsidies. But governments must also seek to remind us of the overwhelming importance of individual virtue, morality and conscience. Without all this, no amount of carrot and stick regulation will even come close to dealing with our many pressing national problems.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I suggest that Scripture does NOT give governments the authority to subsidise anything but only to &quot;commend what is good and punish what is bad&quot; (to approximate the words of Romans 13:3-5 and 1 Peter 2:14).

So I recommend that we work for governments to operate as insurance companies do - apply assured penalties to bad behaviour (NB: not bad thinking) and let the absence of penalty be the reward for taking personal responsibility.

As an aside, the Victorian government enquiry into removal of Equal Opporetunity Act exemptions for churches and private schools, and the move to arm the Equal Opportunity Commission with inquisitorial powers to investigate possible discrimination of its own volition, is a two-pronged attempt to &quot;make people do good&quot; which is 
a) contrary to its Biblical mandate
and
b) futile 

I encourage every reader here to ask Family Voice for a briefing paper on the issue.

John Angelico</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, I think I would partly disagree with this aspect:</p>
<blockquote><p>
So by all means bring on the sporting club subsidies. But governments must also seek to remind us of the overwhelming importance of individual virtue, morality and conscience. Without all this, no amount of carrot and stick regulation will even come close to dealing with our many pressing national problems.
</p></blockquote>
<p>I suggest that Scripture does NOT give governments the authority to subsidise anything but only to &#8220;commend what is good and punish what is bad&#8221; (to approximate the words of Romans 13:3-5 and 1 Peter 2:14).</p>
<p>So I recommend that we work for governments to operate as insurance companies do &#8211; apply assured penalties to bad behaviour (NB: not bad thinking) and let the absence of penalty be the reward for taking personal responsibility.</p>
<p>As an aside, the Victorian government enquiry into removal of Equal Opporetunity Act exemptions for churches and private schools, and the move to arm the Equal Opportunity Commission with inquisitorial powers to investigate possible discrimination of its own volition, is a two-pronged attempt to &#8220;make people do good&#8221; which is<br />
a) contrary to its Biblical mandate<br />
and<br />
b) futile </p>
<p>I encourage every reader here to ask Family Voice for a briefing paper on the issue.</p>
<p>John Angelico</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Rabich</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/06/29/paying-people-to-be-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-145014</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Rabich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1676#comment-145014</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s funny you wrote this today, of all days.  On this very day 2 years ago I started an exercise regimen that consisted of a combination of running, cycling, and the exercise bike in front of the dvd player at home (the latter so I never had any excuse).  I lost 25kg in the next 4 months to be smack bang on target weight for my height and I give glory to God for giving me an absolute resolute desire to keep going until I reached my goal.

Naturally I got asked how I did it, to which I replied that I could write the world&#039;s shortest book on the subject which would really just amount to a brief treatise on discipline and common sense with food and exercise.  It &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; easy to make excuses for yourself, but ultimately you have to decide what you want your life to be.  It&#039;s not the philosophy that is hard (or complicated for that matter), it&#039;s the courage to keep going when it seems unrewarding and you are &#039;not in the mood&#039;.  That&#039;s when it matters the most.  How you apply that is something that is likely to be different for everybody, but ultimately there is just no substitute for pain and sweat.

I remember thinking that the 24kg (my original goal, but I pushed a bit longer at the end) was an impossible idea at the beginning, but I got a nice surprise.  But if the motivation doesn&#039;t come from within (and that&#039;s the funny intangible where God does a major work), it&#039;s doubtful that a person will change as much, and - most importantly - make that change into something permanent.  You can lead a horse to water...

Maybe unhealthy food should/could just be more expensive!  ;-)

Mark Rabich</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s funny you wrote this today, of all days.  On this very day 2 years ago I started an exercise regimen that consisted of a combination of running, cycling, and the exercise bike in front of the dvd player at home (the latter so I never had any excuse).  I lost 25kg in the next 4 months to be smack bang on target weight for my height and I give glory to God for giving me an absolute resolute desire to keep going until I reached my goal.</p>
<p>Naturally I got asked how I did it, to which I replied that I could write the world&#8217;s shortest book on the subject which would really just amount to a brief treatise on discipline and common sense with food and exercise.  It <i>is</i> easy to make excuses for yourself, but ultimately you have to decide what you want your life to be.  It&#8217;s not the philosophy that is hard (or complicated for that matter), it&#8217;s the courage to keep going when it seems unrewarding and you are &#8216;not in the mood&#8217;.  That&#8217;s when it matters the most.  How you apply that is something that is likely to be different for everybody, but ultimately there is just no substitute for pain and sweat.</p>
<p>I remember thinking that the 24kg (my original goal, but I pushed a bit longer at the end) was an impossible idea at the beginning, but I got a nice surprise.  But if the motivation doesn&#8217;t come from within (and that&#8217;s the funny intangible where God does a major work), it&#8217;s doubtful that a person will change as much, and &#8211; most importantly &#8211; make that change into something permanent.  You can lead a horse to water&#8230;</p>
<p>Maybe unhealthy food should/could just be more expensive!  <img src='http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Mark Rabich</p>
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		<title>By: david skinner</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/06/29/paying-people-to-be-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-144986</link>
		<dc:creator>david skinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 07:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1676#comment-144986</guid>
		<description>The beauty of blaming society is that at a stroke it not only negates individual responsibility but, because &quot;society&quot; is undefined and non-specific, no one is seriously expected to reform it. It lets us all off the hook. A favourite ploy of socialists is to blame criminal behaviour on poverty. It all sounds good to declare war on want but no one seriously expects them to held to their promises to end it. War and the poor will always be with us. 
David Skinner, UK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The beauty of blaming society is that at a stroke it not only negates individual responsibility but, because &#8220;society&#8221; is undefined and non-specific, no one is seriously expected to reform it. It lets us all off the hook. A favourite ploy of socialists is to blame criminal behaviour on poverty. It all sounds good to declare war on want but no one seriously expects them to held to their promises to end it. War and the poor will always be with us.<br />
David Skinner, UK</p>
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		<title>By: david skinner</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/06/29/paying-people-to-be-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-144984</link>
		<dc:creator>david skinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1676#comment-144984</guid>
		<description>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-447743/Classroom-thugs-told-Disrupt-school-win-iPod.html

John Adams the second president of America said in an address to the Military, 11 October 1798:
“We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other.”

David Skinner, UK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-447743/Classroom-thugs-told-Disrupt-school-win-iPod.html" rel="nofollow">www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-447743/Classroom-thugs-told-Disrupt-school-win-iPod.html</a></p>
<p>John Adams the second president of America said in an address to the Military, 11 October 1798:<br />
“We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other.”</p>
<p>David Skinner, UK</p>
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		<title>By: Murray Adamthwaite</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/06/29/paying-people-to-be-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-144979</link>
		<dc:creator>Murray Adamthwaite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1676#comment-144979</guid>
		<description>The trouble with blaming some external agent for one&#039;s own behaviour is that the agent so blamed can equally, by the same token, claim that some other outside agent made he/she/them do it. and so we have a potential infinite regress of agencies, and in the end no-one is to blame, except perhaps God (He is brought back in through the back door when this process runs into difficulties).
The logic, or the total lack thereof, of our modern mindset is mind-boggling!
Murray Adamthwaite</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The trouble with blaming some external agent for one&#8217;s own behaviour is that the agent so blamed can equally, by the same token, claim that some other outside agent made he/she/them do it. and so we have a potential infinite regress of agencies, and in the end no-one is to blame, except perhaps God (He is brought back in through the back door when this process runs into difficulties).<br />
The logic, or the total lack thereof, of our modern mindset is mind-boggling!<br />
Murray Adamthwaite</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Muehlenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/06/29/paying-people-to-be-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-144977</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Muehlenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1676#comment-144977</guid>
		<description>Good one Steve!

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good one Steve!</p>
<p>Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Swartz</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/06/29/paying-people-to-be-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-144976</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Swartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1676#comment-144976</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the heads up Bill on the proposal to pay people to lose weight.  I&#039;m heading straight to Mackas after work for a triple-double bacon cheesburger colossal supreme, upgraded to galactic.  Then I&#039;m renting the dvd Supersize me and hope to top 200kg by Christmas.  When did you say the start day was for the subsidies?
Steve Swartz</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the heads up Bill on the proposal to pay people to lose weight.  I&#8217;m heading straight to Mackas after work for a triple-double bacon cheesburger colossal supreme, upgraded to galactic.  Then I&#8217;m renting the dvd Supersize me and hope to top 200kg by Christmas.  When did you say the start day was for the subsidies?<br />
Steve Swartz</p>
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