I hear it echoed in Murray’s reply to Roger but completely absent in both Roger’s comments. What I hear in Roger’s comments is, “I have all the answers.” Further, I heard a distinct voice of accusation towards Australian church leaders that none of them had done good enough.

To quote: “…by comparison the Australian church does not exist.”

Well, thank you VERY much, on behalf of all the sincere and hard working church leaders that I know and deeply respect.

Alister Cameron, Melbourne

Firm preaching that’s true however, the other part of worship is the Eucharist: where the focus is on Christ and not on the Minister.
When church services become noisy and the focus is on the ‘preacher man’ and the homily/sermon is about himself or on topics not related to that day’s Scripture readings, then that is where we get ‘gurus’- and that is how we in the congregation miss out on Christ and why I think people leave for other parishes; or more tragically, if weak in the Faith, leave for good.
Michael Webb

I do not mind this particular thread continuing as long as it stays polite and respectful. Important issues arise here. It seems three things can be said with a fair amount of certainty:

One, there are certainly plenty of churches who are letting down the gospel, seemingly more interested in entertainment, celebrity leadership, numbers and being popular than preaching the firm word about discipleship, counting the cost, denying self, and so on.

Two, there are also plenty of really good pastors and churches out there working their tails off, seeking to faithfully represent Christ aright. Many of them of course never are in the spotlight, do not get much attention, but they are doing great things for the Kingdom.

Three, God will build his church. The amazing thing is, despite all the shortcomings and screw-ups by us, he is preparing a spotless bride for himself. This is an absolutely incredible concept to think about.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

Mark 3:24 ~ If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

Romans 15:1 ~ We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves.

The true NT church is obedience to Christ. Even between us, God is the final judge at the end.

Emily Chen

Roger, is this new church to be Calvinist or Arminian? Baptist or paedobaptist? Independent or Presbyterian? Pre-, post-, or Amillennial? Will it have a pastor, or elders only? Or perhaps a pastor plus deacons? What moral stance will it take on e.g. divorce, pre-marital sex, alcohol consumption, theatre-going, modern Bible versions, and a host of other matters? IOW, many new ventures have claimed to be “the New Testament pattern”, but have usually fallen into one historic groove or another, despite the best of intentions. Everyone and his proverbial dog claim to follow “just the Bible”, even (most especially) the cults, but evaluation of such claims is just a little more difficult.
After 20 centuries of Christian history, the only honest thing to do is admit that in starting a new church, you openly state that in following Scripture, you also adopt a certain set of historic distinctives, as set out in a doctrinal statement or confession of faith, the function of which is to state how your group understands Scripture, and what they see Scripture as teaching on the above issues, and a host of others.
Murray Adamthwaite

Alister, I am disappointed that you make uninformed remarks without producing any evidence for your accusations. Oh, in case you are wondering, I do forgive you for your crass attack on me.

For your information I have been around…the world, and my involvement with the church has been with the house church movement, mega churches, small country churches, various denominations and as leader of para church ministries. In addition I have a theological degree and three university degrees. In England, God used me with a handful of others to bring revival to the church we were in, and I was a member of another church that was in revival for 30 years. What else do you want me to do to show that I have been around?

The only thing that has stopped me starting my own is God’s approval to do so. I have that now so I have made myself available to him to start a new expression of church based on the New Testament. It will be “his” church, not mine and the Holy Spirit will be in charge, not me.

It could not happen before now because I had to go through a lot of sifting of my motives and to ensure that God is the only one who is going to get the glory and to make sure I was dead in Christ to ensure that I was not offering God my ability but my availability.

Roger Marks