Comments on: Telling Lies for Atheism http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/04/29/telling-lies-for-atheism/ Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day... Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:27:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Abu Nudnik http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/04/29/telling-lies-for-atheism/comment-page-1/#comment-206450 Abu Nudnik Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:50:10 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1457#comment-206450 I love Dostoevsky but I have to disagree. Truth is necessary for trust. Trust is necessary for cooperation. Cooperation is necessary for any culture to survive. Abu Nudnik I love Dostoevsky but I have to disagree. Truth is necessary for trust. Trust is necessary for cooperation. Cooperation is necessary for any culture to survive.
Abu Nudnik

]]> By: Han Wei Koay http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/04/29/telling-lies-for-atheism/comment-page-1/#comment-178109 Han Wei Koay Wed, 17 Mar 2010 02:46:04 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1457#comment-178109 Thanks Bill for your effort and commitments to maintaining this site. Thank you for standing up for our faith, something I have trouble doing far too often. Thank you for being faithful to your calling to be one of His church's watchman and I will continue praying for your protection and discernment. Thank you for visiting our chruch a few Sunday's ago, your talk about 'where are all the prophets?". From our discussions I think it has got many of us thinking and considering how to honour our faith in our God... always a good thing. For those who do not believe as Christians do, no worries, you have every right to believe in what you believe in. Any Christian or otherwise who tries to "force" you to believe is probably not doing the right thing. We are told by God to love Him and love others, everything else is based on these two commands. If a Christian says something that upsets you, ask him or her which one of these two commands he or she is adhering to. If they can't answer, then they need to take a time out. If they can, well, please understand that what they say is out of love for you and/or out of love for their God, and perhaps worthy of some thought. God set up the church to ultimately bless the world. We often mess up alot along the way, and there are times when we do it God's way and get it right and good things happen. I will pray for everyone's sake we get it right alot more than we get it wrong. Han Wei Koay Thanks Bill for your effort and commitments to maintaining this site.

Thank you for standing up for our faith, something I have trouble doing far too often.

Thank you for being faithful to your calling to be one of His church’s watchman and I will continue praying for your protection and discernment.

Thank you for visiting our chruch a few Sunday’s ago, your talk about ‘where are all the prophets?”. From our discussions I think it has got many of us thinking and considering how to honour our faith in our God… always a good thing.

For those who do not believe as Christians do, no worries, you have every right to believe in what you believe in. Any Christian or otherwise who tries to “force” you to believe is probably not doing the right thing.

We are told by God to love Him and love others, everything else is based on these two commands. If a Christian says something that upsets you, ask him or her which one of these two commands he or she is adhering to.

If they can’t answer, then they need to take a time out. If they can, well, please understand that what they say is out of love for you and/or out of love for their God, and perhaps worthy of some thought.

God set up the church to ultimately bless the world. We often mess up alot along the way, and there are times when we do it God’s way and get it right and good things happen. I will pray for everyone’s sake we get it right alot more than we get it wrong.

Han Wei Koay

]]> By: Lucas King http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/04/29/telling-lies-for-atheism/comment-page-1/#comment-140010 Lucas King Tue, 26 May 2009 08:03:56 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1457#comment-140010 In response to Neil, It needs to be understood that the bible is quite clear when it comes to babies being killed. In the New Testament, only evil men such as Caesar killed hundreds of young children for his own evil desires. The only references to God “allowing” the destruction of families in the Old Testament; was due to the utter evil and filth that permeated these groups of people. This was rare that he did. In all the cases of whole generations of families being destroyed under Gods command, it was so that evil would not prevail. Biblically, children are a blessing from God. It also needs to be said that God’s morality cannot be brought into question, but our own humanistic ideas and corrupt minds. If God is real, and who the bible says he is, then he is all loving and just. Generally, the natural response to our own children is to punish them justly and with love according to their acts. God is the author and perfector of this concept. Lastly, the latter is right, despicable acts are committed in the name of God, not by God. Don’t blame him for our own mistakes. Lucas King In response to Neil, It needs to be understood that the bible is quite clear when it comes to babies being killed. In the New Testament, only evil men such as Caesar killed hundreds of young children for his own evil desires. The only references to God “allowing” the destruction of families in the Old Testament; was due to the utter evil and filth that permeated these groups of people. This was rare that he did.

In all the cases of whole generations of families being destroyed under Gods command, it was so that evil would not prevail. Biblically, children are a blessing from God.

It also needs to be said that God’s morality cannot be brought into question, but our own humanistic ideas and corrupt minds. If God is real, and who the bible says he is, then he is all loving and just. Generally, the natural response to our own children is to punish them justly and with love according to their acts. God is the author and perfector of this concept.

Lastly, the latter is right, despicable acts are committed in the name of God, not by God. Don’t blame him for our own mistakes.

Lucas King

]]> By: Simone Curran http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/04/29/telling-lies-for-atheism/comment-page-1/#comment-138333 Simone Curran Fri, 15 May 2009 12:01:56 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1457#comment-138333 Richie, to be brought up a Catholic and to have a relationship with Christ are two separate things. I was brought up attending a Catholic Primary School and Catholic Secondary College and going to mass, but it wasn’t until I had an encounter with Jesus that my life totally changed and I started to develop a personal relationship with Jesus and a biblical worldview. You say that you know a “fair bit about Christianity as it happens” – Christianity is about knowing Jesus Christ – do you know Him? Your comment on “unbaptized babies spending eternity in limbo in cases of infant mortality” has no basis in Scripture and hence is untrue. Where is your source for this information? Is it reliable? Is it credible? Simone Curran Richie, to be brought up a Catholic and to have a relationship with Christ are two separate things. I was brought up attending a Catholic Primary School and Catholic Secondary College and going to mass, but it wasn’t until I had an encounter with Jesus that my life totally changed and I started to develop a personal relationship with Jesus and a biblical worldview. You say that you know a “fair bit about Christianity as it happens” – Christianity is about knowing Jesus Christ – do you know Him?

Your comment on “unbaptized babies spending eternity in limbo in cases of infant mortality” has no basis in Scripture and hence is untrue. Where is your source for this information? Is it reliable? Is it credible?

Simone Curran

]]> By: Nino Suraci http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/04/29/telling-lies-for-atheism/comment-page-1/#comment-138277 Nino Suraci Fri, 15 May 2009 02:10:01 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1457#comment-138277 Hi Richie, I presumed you Catholic background from your first post. The Catholic Church un-officially adopted the concept of “limbo” in the middle ages and has recently formally abolished it. It was never a Biblical teaching so you can stop blaming the God that you don’t believe in for that one. As I suggested on my previous post to you, research the Bible if you are going to attack it, so that your ignorance may not be revealed. Secondly, for your information, I became a follower of Jesus Christ at the age of 34 (I say a follower of Jesus as opposed to a religious person committed to an institutional Church), so I had a thorough exposure to the made up lie of macro evolution. Subsequent to my realisation that Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth and The Life, I undertook formal studies which incorporated a thorough critique of the theory of evolution. The conclusion is that the theory of macro evolution is full of problems, and it undergirds a humanist religion that places man at the centre of the universe. Furthermore, from my experience, most people who claim to be evolutionists have never really examined the evidence for themselves. Have you? Richie, I hope that you are earnestly seeking truth, because if you are then I know that it will eventually lead you not to religion but to Him who is absolute truth, Jesus Christ. Nino Suraci Hi Richie, I presumed you Catholic background from your first post. The Catholic Church un-officially adopted the concept of “limbo” in the middle ages and has recently formally abolished it. It was never a Biblical teaching so you can stop blaming the God that you don’t believe in for that one. As I suggested on my previous post to you, research the Bible if you are going to attack it, so that your ignorance may not be revealed.
Secondly, for your information, I became a follower of Jesus Christ at the age of 34 (I say a follower of Jesus as opposed to a religious person committed to an institutional Church), so I had a thorough exposure to the made up lie of macro evolution. Subsequent to my realisation that Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth and The Life, I undertook formal studies which incorporated a thorough critique of the theory of evolution.
The conclusion is that the theory of macro evolution is full of problems, and it undergirds a humanist religion that places man at the centre of the universe.
Furthermore, from my experience, most people who claim to be evolutionists have never really examined the evidence for themselves. Have you?
Richie, I hope that you are earnestly seeking truth, because if you are then I know that it will eventually lead you not to religion but to Him who is absolute truth, Jesus Christ.
Nino Suraci

]]> By: Mark Rabich http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/04/29/telling-lies-for-atheism/comment-page-1/#comment-138270 Mark Rabich Fri, 15 May 2009 00:25:16 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1457#comment-138270 Richie, In case you're wondering and others also need it spelled out, yes indeed, you believe some things about the Bible which are not true, which is as good as "making (it) up". And you just use the "better things to do" line as a pathetic excuse for your ignorance and intellectual laziness. It may work amongst your peers and other atheists but not here. I'm pretty sure such sentiments are just seen as ironic here - you claim rational thought is in your corner, but all you do is display the direct opposite for all to see. It's lame. I hope deep down you know you can do a lot better. <i>Someone displaying real love for knowledge (ie. rationality) would leap at the opportunity to do some research.</i> Why is your time so much more valuable that anybody else's? Why should anybody bother spending their precious time arguing with you if you can't even make a tiny effort to be accurate? And what do you have to gain by sticking to a lie, anyway? Isn't it just better and easier to concede the point and move on? Or are you more interested in being 'right' about everything and justifying yourself than you are in perhaps having some light illuminated on a subject you are in darkness about? As far as I can tell, no regular on this blog claims to have perfect knowledge or something like that, but at least we generally agree on how to get closer to truth this day than we were the day before. How about you? This isn't a game, you know, this concerns your future life - forever. What other issue in your life has the potential to be eternally regretful if you get it wrong? Bill is right, the stakes could not be higher. Mark Rabich Richie,

In case you’re wondering and others also need it spelled out, yes indeed, you believe some things about the Bible which are not true, which is as good as “making (it) up”. And you just use the “better things to do” line as a pathetic excuse for your ignorance and intellectual laziness. It may work amongst your peers and other atheists but not here. I’m pretty sure such sentiments are just seen as ironic here – you claim rational thought is in your corner, but all you do is display the direct opposite for all to see. It’s lame. I hope deep down you know you can do a lot better. Someone displaying real love for knowledge (ie. rationality) would leap at the opportunity to do some research.

Why is your time so much more valuable that anybody else’s? Why should anybody bother spending their precious time arguing with you if you can’t even make a tiny effort to be accurate? And what do you have to gain by sticking to a lie, anyway? Isn’t it just better and easier to concede the point and move on? Or are you more interested in being ‘right’ about everything and justifying yourself than you are in perhaps having some light illuminated on a subject you are in darkness about? As far as I can tell, no regular on this blog claims to have perfect knowledge or something like that, but at least we generally agree on how to get closer to truth this day than we were the day before. How about you?

This isn’t a game, you know, this concerns your future life – forever. What other issue in your life has the potential to be eternally regretful if you get it wrong? Bill is right, the stakes could not be higher.

Mark Rabich

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/04/29/telling-lies-for-atheism/comment-page-1/#comment-138142 Bill Muehlenberg Thu, 14 May 2009 03:45:57 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1457#comment-138142 Thanks Richie “I do know a fair bit about Christianity as it happens.” And yet you cannot even answer the simplest of questions. This is so very typical of atheists: they pontificate on, and attack, a set of beliefs which in fact they haven’t the slightest idea about. Based on your all-so-typical comments, let me lay out for all to see the atheist modus operandi: 1. Claim that only atheists are rational and intelligent. 2. Pretend to be an expert on what you are attacking. 3. When challenged to come up with the goods, change the subject or attack the messenger. 4. Think that you have just won the argument. Thank you for once again demonstrating the intellectual poverty of atheism. It’s all bluster and bluff. It would be terribly funny if it weren’t so serious. Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks Richie

“I do know a fair bit about Christianity as it happens.” And yet you cannot even answer the simplest of questions. This is so very typical of atheists: they pontificate on, and attack, a set of beliefs which in fact they haven’t the slightest idea about.

Based on your all-so-typical comments, let me lay out for all to see the atheist modus operandi:

1. Claim that only atheists are rational and intelligent.
2. Pretend to be an expert on what you are attacking.
3. When challenged to come up with the goods, change the subject or attack the messenger.
4. Think that you have just won the argument.

Thank you for once again demonstrating the intellectual poverty of atheism. It’s all bluster and bluff. It would be terribly funny if it weren’t so serious.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

]]> By: Richie Craze http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/04/29/telling-lies-for-atheism/comment-page-1/#comment-138030 Richie Craze Wed, 13 May 2009 10:11:08 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1457#comment-138030 So are you seriously suggesting I'm making up the thological idea of "Limbo"? Bill, I've better things to do than to trawl through the bible looking for quotes for you. There's plenty of nasty stuff in both. The whole concept of atonement for original sin is repellent enough (as well as nonsense as we now know), as is eternal damnation, which the NT introduces. Nino, if you think evolution is a lie then I would suggest you are the ignorant one, not me. I was brought up a Catholic so I do know a fair bit about Christianity as it happens. These ad hominem attacks are very common amongst Christians posting on websites, I've noticed. Richie Craze, UK So are you seriously suggesting I’m making up the thological idea of “Limbo”? Bill, I’ve better things to do than to trawl through the bible looking for quotes for you. There’s plenty of nasty stuff in both. The whole concept of atonement for original sin is repellent enough (as well as nonsense as we now know), as is eternal damnation, which the NT introduces.

Nino, if you think evolution is a lie then I would suggest you are the ignorant one, not me. I was brought up a Catholic so I do know a fair bit about Christianity as it happens. These ad hominem attacks are very common amongst Christians posting on websites, I’ve noticed.

Richie Craze, UK

]]> By: Nino Suraci http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/04/29/telling-lies-for-atheism/comment-page-1/#comment-137489 Nino Suraci Fri, 08 May 2009 13:36:01 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1457#comment-137489 Hi Richie, I reconmend that you actually do some real research into what the Bible teaches and then come back and make an informed comment. There are too many ignorant people in the world as it is. Also what Bible beleiving Christians accept as truth has not changed in two thousand years. Making things up as they go along is a proven "modus operandi" of those peddling the evolutionary lie. Dawkins has a doctorate in delusive story telling, jump on his site and watch the master at work. Nino Suraci Hi Richie, I reconmend that you actually do some real research into what the Bible teaches and then come back and make an informed comment. There are too many ignorant people in the world as it is. Also what Bible beleiving Christians accept as truth has not changed in two thousand years. Making things up as they go along is a proven “modus operandi” of those peddling the evolutionary lie. Dawkins has a doctorate in delusive story telling, jump on his site and watch the master at work.

Nino Suraci

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/04/29/telling-lies-for-atheism/comment-page-1/#comment-137388 Bill Muehlenberg Fri, 08 May 2009 00:55:11 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1457#comment-137388 Thanks Richie Because there is both continuity and discontinuity between the Testaments, as I already said. And please inform us all where exactly in the New Testament we find anything about “unbaptized babies spending eternity in limbo”. In fact, please show us anywhere in the 66 books of the Bible where we find this. Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks Richie

Because there is both continuity and discontinuity between the Testaments, as I already said.

And please inform us all where exactly in the New Testament we find anything about “unbaptized babies spending eternity in limbo”. In fact, please show us anywhere in the 66 books of the Bible where we find this.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

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