Comments on: A review of Death By Love. By Mark Driscoll and Gerry Breshears. http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/02/26/a-review-of-death-by-love-by-mark-driscoll-and-gerry-breshears/ Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day... Sat, 11 Feb 2012 12:39:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Simon Kennedy, VIC http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/02/26/a-review-of-death-by-love-by-mark-driscoll-and-gerry-breshears/comment-page-1/#comment-128867 Simon Kennedy, VIC Wed, 04 Mar 2009 11:55:52 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1230#comment-128867 Bill, this book was excellent. I think it is great how it is deeply powerful, and deeply theological, while also giving clear models for applying the Cross to real situations. This is very valuable for anyone working in pastoral care, I would think. Whether you are a pastor, new Christian, old Christian, non-Christian, this book has much to say. My review is here, if you're interested: http://www.greyleads.com/peroratio/review-death-love-letters-cross-mark-driscoll-gerry-breshears/ Bill and Phil; I like the way he breaks down the EC into 4 lanes. Note that, in discussing lane 3 ('Housechurch Emergents'?), he mentions Australians Mike Frost and Alan Hirsch as key figures. Simon Kennedy, VIC Bill, this book was excellent. I think it is great how it is deeply powerful, and deeply theological, while also giving clear models for applying the Cross to real situations. This is very valuable for anyone working in pastoral care, I would think. Whether you are a pastor, new Christian, old Christian, non-Christian, this book has much to say. My review is here, if you’re interested:

www.greyleads.com/peroratio/review-death-love-letters-cross-mark-driscoll-gerry-breshears/

Bill and Phil; I like the way he breaks down the EC into 4 lanes. Note that, in discussing lane 3 (‘Housechurch Emergents’?), he mentions Australians Mike Frost and Alan Hirsch as key figures.

Simon Kennedy, VIC

]]> By: Phil Twiss http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/02/26/a-review-of-death-by-love-by-mark-driscoll-and-gerry-breshears/comment-page-1/#comment-128769 Phil Twiss Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:35:34 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1230#comment-128769 Bill, I have to admit I struggle a little with his irreverence and blunt criticism of things he does not relate to. I think he is quick to put down any form of tradition and yes he does throw things out very quickly that he does not think fits his image of the Church. I have not delved into his position on Biblical Law and where he thinks it fits in with the Church today, nor his views on the Church / State relationship but I suspect I might differ significantly. That said he does not waffle around the edges like so many do today and perhaps we could learn something from his style. As Steve Shlissel said recently, we are entering a time where we don't have the luxury of arguing over finer points. The Church is under threat and we need to find where we can work together despite relatively minor differences. That is a challenge to me as I have enjoy the Presbyterian commitment to nailing down the finer points of doctrine. I guess now is a time to discern more than just difference but to wisely separate out what used to be called cardinal truths from less crucial ones. It looks like the book "Why We're Not Emergent" is worth reading. Finding the balance between hanging onto those things worth keeping and moving forward is, as always, difficult. Kind Regards Phil Twiss Bill, I have to admit I struggle a little with his irreverence and blunt criticism of things he does not relate to. I think he is quick to put down any form of tradition and yes he does throw things out very quickly that he does not think fits his image of the Church. I have not delved into his position on Biblical Law and where he thinks it fits in with the Church today, nor his views on the Church / State relationship but I suspect I might differ significantly.

That said he does not waffle around the edges like so many do today and perhaps we could learn something from his style. As Steve Shlissel said recently, we are entering a time where we don’t have the luxury of arguing over finer points. The Church is under threat and we need to find where we can work together despite relatively minor differences. That is a challenge to me as I have enjoy the Presbyterian commitment to nailing down the finer points of doctrine. I guess now is a time to discern more than just difference but to wisely separate out what used to be called cardinal truths from less crucial ones.

It looks like the book “Why We’re Not Emergent” is worth reading. Finding the balance between hanging onto those things worth keeping and moving forward is, as always, difficult.

Kind Regards

Phil Twiss

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/02/26/a-review-of-death-by-love-by-mark-driscoll-and-gerry-breshears/comment-page-1/#comment-128767 Bill Muehlenberg Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:10:33 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1230#comment-128767 Thanks again Phil I am still listening to Driscoll. He seems to break up the EC into four lanes, and he seems to especially dislike lane 4, the emergent liberals. But he seems OK with the other three, and says he has a lot of friends and co-workers in those first three groups.. So we may be both right. The radical wing of the EC he certainly disowns, but he does not seem to disown all of the EC. Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks again Phil

I am still listening to Driscoll. He seems to break up the EC into four lanes, and he seems to especially dislike lane 4, the emergent liberals. But he seems OK with the other three, and says he has a lot of friends and co-workers in those first three groups.. So we may be both right. The radical wing of the EC he certainly disowns, but he does not seem to disown all of the EC.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/02/26/a-review-of-death-by-love-by-mark-driscoll-and-gerry-breshears/comment-page-1/#comment-128764 Bill Muehlenberg Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:54:13 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1230#comment-128764 Thanks Phil I am happy to run with your version of events. The reason I put Driscoll in the EC camp was that he himself was still doing this as late as 2007. But if he has made a clean break with it since then, that is fine by me. (I see the video clip you provide – which I am now listening to - was done just a few months later: Feb. 24, 2008.) It would be hard indeed for someone who is trying so hard to retain basic biblical orthodoxy as Driscoll is to be part of the increasingly heterodox emerging church movement. Thanks for the tip. Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks Phil

I am happy to run with your version of events. The reason I put Driscoll in the EC camp was that he himself was still doing this as late as 2007. But if he has made a clean break with it since then, that is fine by me. (I see the video clip you provide – which I am now listening to – was done just a few months later: Feb. 24, 2008.) It would be hard indeed for someone who is trying so hard to retain basic biblical orthodoxy as Driscoll is to be part of the increasingly heterodox emerging church movement. Thanks for the tip.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

]]> By: Phil Twiss http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/02/26/a-review-of-death-by-love-by-mark-driscoll-and-gerry-breshears/comment-page-1/#comment-128762 Phil Twiss Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:14:42 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1230#comment-128762 Bill. Mark Driscoll very clearly separates himself from the emerging church. He was associated in the early days with a lot of the leading proponents of it now but makes no bones about his disdain over their rejection of orthodox Christianity and biblical truth. I am only just getting my head around where he is coming from and find him challenging on a number of issues but he always comes across as a sound biblical expositor and fearless preacher of Christ. He did a series a little while ago called "Religion Saves - and Nine Other Misconceptions" and one of the sermons was on the emerging church. Here if you have not already seen or heard it. http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/religionsaves/emerging-church Forgive me if it seems I am splitting hairs but I think that an association with the emerging church may put some off and limit access to what I believe are some critical insights into the current cultural disconnect between much of the Church and society. I don't always agree with Mark but I think we can learn much from his approach and boldness to preach the gospel into all areas of life. Keep up the great work. Phil Twiss Bill. Mark Driscoll very clearly separates himself from the emerging church. He was associated in the early days with a lot of the leading proponents of it now but makes no bones about his disdain over their rejection of orthodox Christianity and biblical truth. I am only just getting my head around where he is coming from and find him challenging on a number of issues but he always comes across as a sound biblical expositor and fearless preacher of Christ. He did a series a little while ago called “Religion Saves – and Nine Other Misconceptions” and one of the sermons was on the emerging church. Here if you have not already seen or heard it. www.marshillchurch.org/media/religionsaves/emerging-church

Forgive me if it seems I am splitting hairs but I think that an association with the emerging church may put some off and limit access to what I believe are some critical insights into the current cultural disconnect between much of the Church and society. I don’t always agree with Mark but I think we can learn much from his approach and boldness to preach the gospel into all areas of life.

Keep up the great work.

Phil Twiss

]]> By: stephen white http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/02/26/a-review-of-death-by-love-by-mark-driscoll-and-gerry-breshears/comment-page-1/#comment-128402 stephen white Sat, 28 Feb 2009 05:15:57 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1230#comment-128402 Very sound! Stephen White Very sound!
Stephen White

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