Comments on: On Israel’s Right to Self-Defence http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/01/03/on-israel%e2%80%99s-right-to-self-defence/ Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day... Sat, 11 Feb 2012 04:37:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: David Visser http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/01/03/on-israel%e2%80%99s-right-to-self-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-120917 David Visser Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:27:32 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1048#comment-120917 We are told there will be wars. There has always been a war at some point in time. Will can try and justify the actions of one waring party or the other but how can you justify killing the image of God? The Jews and Islam are both as bad as each other. They are ignorant. Ignorant of the real truth of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ. For as long as they both ignore the truth about forgiveness, turning the other cheek and loving your enemy as Jesus has taught us, they will never have peace. Pray that the Holy Spirit will allow the peace and love of the Gospel to enter their hearts bringing about a real end to the war. David Visser We are told there will be wars. There has always been a war at some point in time. Will can try and justify the actions of one waring party or the other but how can you justify killing the image of God? The Jews and Islam are both as bad as each other. They are ignorant. Ignorant of the real truth of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ. For as long as they both ignore the truth about forgiveness, turning the other cheek and loving your enemy as Jesus has taught us, they will never have peace. Pray that the Holy Spirit will allow the peace and love of the Gospel to enter their hearts bringing about a real end to the war.
David Visser

]]> By: Siti Khatijah http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/01/03/on-israel%e2%80%99s-right-to-self-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-120879 Siti Khatijah Mon, 12 Jan 2009 04:12:22 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1048#comment-120879 For the sake of humanity please read Professor Jonathan Glover of Kings College London as he talks about the possibilty for peace for both Israel and the Palestinians on abc.net.au/encounter on the 21.12.08,"Towards Peace between Israelis and palestinians". I know that we have goodness in everyone. we just need the help of those who can show it to help them get through this. Siti Khatijah. For the sake of humanity please read Professor Jonathan Glover of Kings College London as he talks about the possibilty for peace for both Israel and the Palestinians on abc.net.au/encounter on the 21.12.08,”Towards Peace between Israelis and palestinians”. I know that we have goodness in everyone. we just need the help of those who can show it to help them get through this.
Siti Khatijah.

]]> By: Siti Khatijah http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/01/03/on-israel%e2%80%99s-right-to-self-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-120846 Siti Khatijah Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:32:46 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1048#comment-120846 when I encountered the very nice jewish background person and he asked where I was from and found out I was Sufi, he said that it was sad the state of affairs between the two, I agreed and told him that I would very much like to visit the Holy Land one day if I ever was permitted too.And he told me that he prays for my wish to come true and that if only he could visit my country. You see when humanity is lost people hate but when it is not I know for a fact that they can overcome their differences. We must collectively remind them of their humanity. Siti Khatijah. when I encountered the very nice jewish background person and he asked where I was from and found out I was Sufi, he said that it was sad the state of affairs between the two, I agreed and told him that I would very much like to visit the Holy Land one day if I ever was permitted too.And he told me that he prays for my wish to come true and that if only he could visit my country. You see when humanity is lost people hate but when it is not I know for a fact that they can overcome their differences. We must collectively remind them of their humanity.
Siti Khatijah.

]]> By: Siti Khatijah http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/01/03/on-israel%e2%80%99s-right-to-self-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-120842 Siti Khatijah Sun, 11 Jan 2009 21:55:04 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1048#comment-120842 Ewan, I wasnt trying to misrepresent anything. I just did not know where you were heading with your comment. The thing is any war is very disheartening. One wants to find solutions for these people because as I said before, I tell the middle eastern people off for what hamas is doing (although I am not middle eastern myself). their reply is that because they see the Palestinians being treated badly but they dont want ot fight with Israel. So I say that Israel has a right to live peacefully as a group of people too. It is their world too. I have come to know some jewish people and they are pretty normal to me. Infact one has been quite delightful in his approach when he found out my background. I have always trusted the wwests ability to reason. That is why I am dissapointed when the West shos partiality to one side because without the West and their high reasoning ability where do we go? and who do we turn too? Siti Khatijah Ewan, I wasnt trying to misrepresent anything. I just did not know where you were heading with your comment. The thing is any war is very disheartening. One wants to find solutions for these people because as I said before, I tell the middle eastern people off for what hamas is doing (although I am not middle eastern myself). their reply is that because they see the Palestinians being treated badly but they dont want ot fight with Israel. So I say that Israel has a right to live peacefully as a group of people too. It is their world too. I have come to know some jewish people and they are pretty normal to me. Infact one has been quite delightful in his approach when he found out my background. I have always trusted the wwests ability to reason. That is why I am dissapointed when the West shos partiality to one side because without the West and their high reasoning ability where do we go? and who do we turn too?
Siti Khatijah

]]> By: Jonathan Sarfati http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/01/03/on-israel%e2%80%99s-right-to-self-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-120697 Jonathan Sarfati Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:55:48 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1048#comment-120697 The mainstream media lies about Israel. Remember the photoshopped a pic of smoke (see <a href="http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/1,7340,L-3286966,00.html" rel="nofollow">Reuters admits doctoring Beirut photo</a>), or reports "funerals" of the same "corpse" that turns out to be very much alive ....: Canadian columnist Paul Schneidereit has written, "[...] we've seen cases where the bodies of Palestinian martyrs carried on stretchers are inadvertently dropped, then, of their own volition, climb back on again. We’ve seen reports of massacres, as in Jenin in 2002, that turned out, after independent investigation, to have been greatly exaggerated. Needless to say, such episodes don’t instil an abiding trust in subsequent Palestinian claims, at least until they’re verified." Professor Richard Landes of Boston University, in his online video <a href="http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1opys" rel="nofollow">Pallywood: According to Palestinian Sources</a> documents "Palestinian cameramen, especially when there are no Westerners around, engage in the systematic staging of action scenes." But this didn't stop professing Christian Gordon Moyes from ranting against Israel's right to self-defence (for Moyes' views on any topic, just see the current opinion of the secular left), and thinks that Israel has no right to destroy the "democratically elected government" government of Hamas. Hamas is the Hebrew word for violence, and the Hamas charter is committed to the eradication of Israel. Israel should indeed try to wipe out this "democratically elected government", just as the Allies wiped out the democratically elected Nazis in WW2. At the very least, Israel should not stop as long as any rockets are fired. Moyes probably would have called a ceasefire in WW2 even as the Nazis were raining V2 rockets on London. Jonathan Sarfati, Brisbane The mainstream media lies about Israel. Remember the photoshopped a pic of smoke (see Reuters admits doctoring Beirut photo), or reports “funerals” of the same “corpse” that turns out to be very much alive ….: Canadian columnist Paul Schneidereit has written, “[...] we’ve seen cases where the bodies of Palestinian martyrs carried on stretchers are inadvertently dropped, then, of their own volition, climb back on again. We’ve seen reports of massacres, as in Jenin in 2002, that turned out, after independent investigation, to have been greatly exaggerated. Needless to say, such episodes don’t instil an abiding trust in subsequent Palestinian claims, at least until they’re verified.” Professor Richard Landes of Boston University, in his online video Pallywood: According to Palestinian Sources documents “Palestinian cameramen, especially when there are no Westerners around, engage in the systematic staging of action scenes.”

But this didn’t stop professing Christian Gordon Moyes from ranting against Israel’s right to self-defence (for Moyes’ views on any topic, just see the current opinion of the secular left), and thinks that Israel has no right to destroy the “democratically elected government” government of Hamas. Hamas is the Hebrew word for violence, and the Hamas charter is committed to the eradication of Israel. Israel should indeed try to wipe out this “democratically elected government”, just as the Allies wiped out the democratically elected Nazis in WW2. At the very least, Israel should not stop as long as any rockets are fired. Moyes probably would have called a ceasefire in WW2 even as the Nazis were raining V2 rockets on London.

Jonathan Sarfati, Brisbane

]]> By: Ewan http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/01/03/on-israel%e2%80%99s-right-to-self-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-120685 Ewan Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:09:15 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1048#comment-120685 Siti, where did I say that killing the so-called Palestinians is OK because they are a myth? I am astounded by such misrepresentation. Prior to the establishment of the modern state of Israel, the Palestinians as a people group did not exist. The people referred to as Palestinians today exist only because Israel's neighbouring Arab states refused to allow their fellow Arabs to settle there and instead used the situation to create a refugee crisis for the purpose of undermining the state of Israel. There is more detail in that radio show I linked to. Listen to it and you might learn something. Ewan McDonald. Siti, where did I say that killing the so-called Palestinians is OK because they are a myth? I am astounded by such misrepresentation.

Prior to the establishment of the modern state of Israel, the Palestinians as a people group did not exist. The people referred to as Palestinians today exist only because Israel’s neighbouring Arab states refused to allow their fellow Arabs to settle there and instead used the situation to create a refugee crisis for the purpose of undermining the state of Israel. There is more detail in that radio show I linked to. Listen to it and you might learn something.

Ewan McDonald.

]]> By: Siti Khatijah http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/01/03/on-israel%e2%80%99s-right-to-self-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-120642 Siti Khatijah Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:31:41 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1048#comment-120642 Only the other day we had a conversation with a group of people and I said that the Jews have been persecuted since the time of Moses ( maybe even earlier) so I said that we must understand where they are coming form their perspective in things. They deserve peaceful enjoyment of their lives just as others do. On the ground we dont want this we dont want Hamas to kill, we dont want to be reported as being evil, to be eradicated, that everything said about the religion is painful to read about listen too, we dont weant AlQaeda to be the way they are. what is the source of all this hatred this is what we need to answer. when did it start and how do we go about helping both, everyone. we cannot live like this can we? I tell all the moslems i encounter that this is wrong. that taking a life is wrong. it is not up to us.i can only speak to the moslems. I lament to just about everyone i know especially the middle eastern people about how this country australia is good and that people who migrate should treat it with respect, follow the rule of law, improve themselves and dont bring with them their culture or ways that are not compatible here. that is why I put in my two cents worth here, to show you that i not only want to take from you but i want to be part of what is right and good and contribute. that having discourses with you may change your views a little if not everything about these evil people. if i can do my bit to change the people who migrate here from different parts of the wiorld that i encounter I will. I always do. Siti khatijah Only the other day we had a conversation with a group of people and I said that the Jews have been persecuted since the time of Moses ( maybe even earlier) so I said that we must understand where they are coming form their perspective in things. They deserve peaceful enjoyment of their lives just as others do. On the ground we dont want this we dont want Hamas to kill, we dont want to be reported as being evil, to be eradicated, that everything said about the religion is painful to read about listen too, we dont weant AlQaeda to be the way they are. what is the source of all this hatred this is what we need to answer. when did it start and how do we go about helping both, everyone. we cannot live like this can we? I tell all the moslems i encounter that this is wrong. that taking a life is wrong. it is not up to us.i can only speak to the moslems. I lament to just about everyone i know especially the middle eastern people about how this country australia is good and that people who migrate should treat it with respect, follow the rule of law, improve themselves and dont bring with them their culture or ways that are not compatible here. that is why I put in my two cents worth here, to show you that i not only want to take from you but i want to be part of what is right and good and contribute. that having discourses with you may change your views a little if not everything about these evil people. if i can do my bit to change the people who migrate here from different parts of the wiorld that i encounter I will. I always do.
Siti khatijah

]]> By: Siti Khatijah http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/01/03/on-israel%e2%80%99s-right-to-self-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-120641 Siti Khatijah Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:13:28 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1048#comment-120641 Thanks Bill. I was actually loudly telling the Middle eastern people what the west thinks of the Moslems. I actually make sure that when I speak to my friends who are of non moslem backgrounds that we do not condone killings because taking a life is not in our hands. It is up to the One that created us. Do you really think that we dont do anything. The only thing that ever gets reported is the extremist people. How do you think we the ones who are not and wish for peace live with this everyday being reported.There are groups who are trying to keep the peace despite the only attention being on Hamas and Al Qaeda and how extreme the moslems are. I come from a country who before all this women are actually in all levels, whether as a mother a teacher, a lawyer a rpofessional, ministers. I was never ever taught hatred towards any non christians. In fact I grew up with them peacefully. So yes to answer your question I do to a point where my own husband tells me I will get into trouble with my own kind as he is not from my country and I say I dont care because killing (any killing ) you is wrong. There is such a thing as the Rule of Law, and once that is broken then tyranny follows. I actually dont agree with both sides. they are both wrong to kill. Just like I dont agree that the Iraq war should have happened. Just like I dont agree that Iran should be bomb. Just like I dont agree the persecution of the Jews.I live being different everyday of my life. I know what its like. I dont agree with injustices because it shows that humanity is lost and only ego, hatred prevails and everyone is blinded by that and only that. Siti Khatijah. Thanks Bill. I was actually loudly telling the Middle eastern people what the west thinks of the Moslems. I actually make sure that when I speak to my friends who are of non moslem backgrounds that we do not condone killings because taking a life is not in our hands. It is up to the One that created us. Do you really think that we dont do anything. The only thing that ever gets reported is the extremist people. How do you think we the ones who are not and wish for peace live with this everyday being reported.There are groups who are trying to keep the peace despite the only attention being on Hamas and Al Qaeda and how extreme the moslems are. I come from a country who before all this women are actually in all levels, whether as a mother a teacher, a lawyer a rpofessional, ministers. I was never ever taught hatred towards any non christians. In fact I grew up with them peacefully. So yes to answer your question I do to a point where my own husband tells me I will get into trouble with my own kind as he is not from my country and I say I dont care because killing (any killing ) you is wrong. There is such a thing as the Rule of Law, and once that is broken then tyranny follows. I actually dont agree with both sides. they are both wrong to kill. Just like I dont agree that the Iraq war should have happened. Just like I dont agree that Iran should be bomb. Just like I dont agree the persecution of the Jews.I live being different everyday of my life. I know what its like. I dont agree with injustices because it shows that humanity is lost and only ego, hatred prevails and everyone is blinded by that and only that.
Siti Khatijah.

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/01/03/on-israel%e2%80%99s-right-to-self-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-120634 Bill Muehlenberg Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:35:33 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1048#comment-120634 Thanks Siti If you are against all killing, were you loudly condemning the 6000 Hamas rockets raining down on Israel during the past three years, or did your concerns only publicly erupt when Israel decided that enough is enough and it started to defend itself? Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks Siti

If you are against all killing, were you loudly condemning the 6000 Hamas rockets raining down on Israel during the past three years, or did your concerns only publicly erupt when Israel decided that enough is enough and it started to defend itself?

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

]]> By: Siti Khatijah http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2009/01/03/on-israel%e2%80%99s-right-to-self-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-120629 Siti Khatijah Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:25:40 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/?p=1048#comment-120629 You may not want to believe certain things but not everyon is anti semitic.Some of us are actually ANTI WAR ANTI killiNG and ANTI DESTRUCTION. no matter who is doing it. Siti Khatijah You may not want to believe certain things but not everyon is anti semitic.Some of us are actually ANTI WAR ANTI killiNG and ANTI DESTRUCTION. no matter who is doing it.
Siti Khatijah

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