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	<title>Comments on: Jesus, Muhammad and Violence</title>
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	<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/</link>
	<description>Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day...</description>
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		<title>By: Ben C</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-115562</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 12:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/#comment-115562</guid>
		<description>I recently posted on my favourite book of the moment, David Levering Lewis&#039;s God&#039;s Crucible (I fear it will not find favour with many here given his consciously secular historical approach - BCE instead of BC - heaven forfend!). 

It is full of really interesting historical facts about Islam, including that Muhammad was from the very beginning involved in temporal politics and using violence in the shape of jihad to acheive temporal political goals. There could be no separation of church and state therefore. 

One other fascinating fact in the book was that a key step in Muhammad&#039;s development as his marriage to an independent business woman much his senior. The extraordinary nature of a woman operating successfully and independendtly in Arabia at that time is immediately obvious - equally the tragic fact the Islam took so little notice of this woman&#039;s contribution in forming its attitude to women in society.

Ben Carter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently posted on my favourite book of the moment, David Levering Lewis&#8217;s God&#8217;s Crucible (I fear it will not find favour with many here given his consciously secular historical approach &#8211; BCE instead of BC &#8211; heaven forfend!). </p>
<p>It is full of really interesting historical facts about Islam, including that Muhammad was from the very beginning involved in temporal politics and using violence in the shape of jihad to acheive temporal political goals. There could be no separation of church and state therefore. </p>
<p>One other fascinating fact in the book was that a key step in Muhammad&#8217;s development as his marriage to an independent business woman much his senior. The extraordinary nature of a woman operating successfully and independendtly in Arabia at that time is immediately obvious &#8211; equally the tragic fact the Islam took so little notice of this woman&#8217;s contribution in forming its attitude to women in society.</p>
<p>Ben Carter</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Sarfati</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-114235</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Sarfati</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 01:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/#comment-114235</guid>
		<description>As &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/no_negotiation_possible/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Andrew Bolt has documented, the Islamofascist terrorists who attacked Mumbai hotels&lt;/a&gt; killed many hostages in cold blood after viciously torturing them.
Jonathan Sarfati, Brisbane</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As <a href="http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/no_negotiation_possible/" rel="nofollow">Andrew Bolt has documented, the Islamofascist terrorists who attacked Mumbai hotels</a> killed many hostages in cold blood after viciously torturing them.<br />
Jonathan Sarfati, Brisbane</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Swallow</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-113766</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Swallow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 04:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/#comment-113766</guid>
		<description>This is from the great Ayatollah Khomeini architect  of the Iranian revolution: “Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled or incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world.&quot;

Khomeini also rebuked the Islam-is-a-religion-of-peace crowd: “Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam says: Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]….Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for the Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Qur’anic] psalms and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all this mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.” 

Doug Swallow, Bang Na,Thailand</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is from the great Ayatollah Khomeini architect  of the Iranian revolution: “Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled or incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world.&#8221;</p>
<p>Khomeini also rebuked the Islam-is-a-religion-of-peace crowd: “Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam says: Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]….Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for the Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Qur’anic] psalms and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all this mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.” </p>
<p>Doug Swallow, Bang Na,Thailand</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Muehlenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-113367</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Muehlenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:11:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/#comment-113367</guid>
		<description>Thanks Tuhin

Yes I am aware of the Hindu-Muslim rivalry that exists in India, and the very real tensions there. And I am aware of the Hindu claims about Jesus being just one of many avatars. Christians of course disagree fundamentally. Jesus is not a mere guide like Buddha, but is God, and claims to be the sole and exclusive means of reconciliation with God. And Islam is a religion, albeit one which is also a political movement, which sees no separation between church and state.

I will need to write a whole article to point out the fundamental differences between the Hindu worldview and the biblical Christian worldview. But thanks for writing.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Tuhin</p>
<p>Yes I am aware of the Hindu-Muslim rivalry that exists in India, and the very real tensions there. And I am aware of the Hindu claims about Jesus being just one of many avatars. Christians of course disagree fundamentally. Jesus is not a mere guide like Buddha, but is God, and claims to be the sole and exclusive means of reconciliation with God. And Islam is a religion, albeit one which is also a political movement, which sees no separation between church and state.</p>
<p>I will need to write a whole article to point out the fundamental differences between the Hindu worldview and the biblical Christian worldview. But thanks for writing.</p>
<p>Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</p>
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		<title>By: Tuhin Chatterjee</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-113284</link>
		<dc:creator>Tuhin Chatterjee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/#comment-113284</guid>
		<description>Dear Bill, 
I am a hindu living in India. We hindu&#039;s believe in all religions and gods. Infact, we believe that Jesus Christ was one of the many  &quot;Avatar&quot;s (Avatar =Incarnation of God) who have come earth to give us blessings and to guide us along with other modern avatars like Gautama Buddha, and Mahavira (Jainism). I think you do injustice to the christian world alltogether by comparing Jesus Christ to Muhammad. Islam is not a religion at all. It is as you have rightly pointed out, a political movement which was used by muhammed for his own means. Nonetheless thank you for a very enlightening article.
Tuhin Chatterjee, Darjeeling, India</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Bill,<br />
I am a hindu living in India. We hindu&#8217;s believe in all religions and gods. Infact, we believe that Jesus Christ was one of the many  &#8220;Avatar&#8221;s (Avatar =Incarnation of God) who have come earth to give us blessings and to guide us along with other modern avatars like Gautama Buddha, and Mahavira (Jainism). I think you do injustice to the christian world alltogether by comparing Jesus Christ to Muhammad. Islam is not a religion at all. It is as you have rightly pointed out, a political movement which was used by muhammed for his own means. Nonetheless thank you for a very enlightening article.<br />
Tuhin Chatterjee, Darjeeling, India</p>
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		<title>By: david skinner</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-113076</link>
		<dc:creator>david skinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 08:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/#comment-113076</guid>
		<description>John, all that you say about Muslims and western secular intellectuals is a condition shared by us all. We Christians also suffer from deception, delusion, denial, distractions and if we are not careful a premature  destruction (Ananias and Sapphira). Let us never think that we are beyond being caught by the wiles of the devil. 

I thoroughly agree with you concerning both the Muslim and western secularist being unable to recognize the conflict with their outlook versus reality and fact. The sensory deprivation chamber (where a subject in swathed in soft material and shut up in darkness, so that he or she senses nothing, starts to hallucinate and if left long enough goes mad) is a picture of being cut off from the reality of God and the Truth. To witness this on a daily basis one only has to go into any western school and try to communicate with children using, as you say, common sense and reason. 

It is no co-incidence that the two groups who are attempting to take away our freedom of speech and expression are the Muslims and homosexuals, both using human rights.    

David Skinner, UK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, all that you say about Muslims and western secular intellectuals is a condition shared by us all. We Christians also suffer from deception, delusion, denial, distractions and if we are not careful a premature  destruction (Ananias and Sapphira). Let us never think that we are beyond being caught by the wiles of the devil. </p>
<p>I thoroughly agree with you concerning both the Muslim and western secularist being unable to recognize the conflict with their outlook versus reality and fact. The sensory deprivation chamber (where a subject in swathed in soft material and shut up in darkness, so that he or she senses nothing, starts to hallucinate and if left long enough goes mad) is a picture of being cut off from the reality of God and the Truth. To witness this on a daily basis one only has to go into any western school and try to communicate with children using, as you say, common sense and reason. </p>
<p>It is no co-incidence that the two groups who are attempting to take away our freedom of speech and expression are the Muslims and homosexuals, both using human rights.    </p>
<p>David Skinner, UK</p>
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		<title>By: John FG McMahon</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-113044</link>
		<dc:creator>John FG McMahon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 02:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/#comment-113044</guid>
		<description>David,

My emphasis is on perspectives and a grasp of reality, not intelligence or learning. Those who live their lives entirely in a restricted insular environment, a cocoon if you wish, generally have little, or at best a tenuous, -usually warped-grasp of wordly realities. Common sense is also too often a casuality in these circumstances. No amount of intellectual prowess counters this. Coupled with life-long continuous brainwashing from birth these people are unable to recognize the conflict with their outlook versus reality and fact.

Academics, who are nursed from the cradle through school to university back to school (as teachers, administrators etc) or back to life-long university careers or in academe, are often a good example of this. Take the abortion and climate change debates. No matter how many facts, figures, graphs, scientific evidence and other information, anti-life proponents and climate warming alarmists remain in denial, refuse to face reality, close their minds to argument, reason and evidence and continue to promote their ideology mostly by lies and ad hominem attacks on their opposition.

The Islamic culture is a prominent example. The lives of Muslims today have changed little from their tribal ways. New ideas, scientific research, free exchange of information, liberty, encouragement to learn etc are all denied in such a climate. The world is assesed and judged from this point of view. It is akin to someone standing all their lives with their nose hard against an enormously high and wide wall, seeing nothing but tiny grains of sand, cement and rock.

Yes, they are shrewd, manipulative, quick to note and exploit any weakness but that does not equate to full or any understanding and appreciation. Simply ask any one of the Muslim clerics here in Australia about their knowledge and understanding of Christianity. One of their reasons for rejecting the divinity of Jesus, ie Son of God- second Person of the Holy Trinity, is their question and argument: &quot;Why would God have sex with a woman? God does not need a concubine&quot;. They don&#039;t understand the Trinity and the work of the Holy Spirit. These are basic tenets and precepts of Christianity which are unknown to them. Many everyday Christians extend themselves to learn and understand Islam, either to some degree or extensively, but it is a rare occasion when a Muslim troubles himself to learn anything at all about Christianity.

Thus the Muslim clerics view the world entirely from their deep, narrow, dark enclaves of limited knowledge and understanding. Thus their belief that by converting his Holiness the Pope, the western world will capitulate to Islam.

John McMahon, Kolonga, Qld</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>My emphasis is on perspectives and a grasp of reality, not intelligence or learning. Those who live their lives entirely in a restricted insular environment, a cocoon if you wish, generally have little, or at best a tenuous, -usually warped-grasp of wordly realities. Common sense is also too often a casuality in these circumstances. No amount of intellectual prowess counters this. Coupled with life-long continuous brainwashing from birth these people are unable to recognize the conflict with their outlook versus reality and fact.</p>
<p>Academics, who are nursed from the cradle through school to university back to school (as teachers, administrators etc) or back to life-long university careers or in academe, are often a good example of this. Take the abortion and climate change debates. No matter how many facts, figures, graphs, scientific evidence and other information, anti-life proponents and climate warming alarmists remain in denial, refuse to face reality, close their minds to argument, reason and evidence and continue to promote their ideology mostly by lies and ad hominem attacks on their opposition.</p>
<p>The Islamic culture is a prominent example. The lives of Muslims today have changed little from their tribal ways. New ideas, scientific research, free exchange of information, liberty, encouragement to learn etc are all denied in such a climate. The world is assesed and judged from this point of view. It is akin to someone standing all their lives with their nose hard against an enormously high and wide wall, seeing nothing but tiny grains of sand, cement and rock.</p>
<p>Yes, they are shrewd, manipulative, quick to note and exploit any weakness but that does not equate to full or any understanding and appreciation. Simply ask any one of the Muslim clerics here in Australia about their knowledge and understanding of Christianity. One of their reasons for rejecting the divinity of Jesus, ie Son of God- second Person of the Holy Trinity, is their question and argument: &#8220;Why would God have sex with a woman? God does not need a concubine&#8221;. They don&#8217;t understand the Trinity and the work of the Holy Spirit. These are basic tenets and precepts of Christianity which are unknown to them. Many everyday Christians extend themselves to learn and understand Islam, either to some degree or extensively, but it is a rare occasion when a Muslim troubles himself to learn anything at all about Christianity.</p>
<p>Thus the Muslim clerics view the world entirely from their deep, narrow, dark enclaves of limited knowledge and understanding. Thus their belief that by converting his Holiness the Pope, the western world will capitulate to Islam.</p>
<p>John McMahon, Kolonga, Qld</p>
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		<title>By: david skinner</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-112917</link>
		<dc:creator>david skinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 09:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/#comment-112917</guid>
		<description>John, that is all part of the trick i.e., to give the impression that we are dealing with, as you say myopic medieval clerics. The Iranian revolution was led by a highly educated intellectual, the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, a philosopher, equal I would imagine to any of the western intellectual/philosophers who have brought the west to its knees. We are not dealing with hillbillies but men of great ability and cunning. They know how we think. They certainly have a grasp and control of western human rights. 

David Skinner, UK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, that is all part of the trick i.e., to give the impression that we are dealing with, as you say myopic medieval clerics. The Iranian revolution was led by a highly educated intellectual, the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, a philosopher, equal I would imagine to any of the western intellectual/philosophers who have brought the west to its knees. We are not dealing with hillbillies but men of great ability and cunning. They know how we think. They certainly have a grasp and control of western human rights. </p>
<p>David Skinner, UK</p>
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		<title>By: Stan Fishley</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-112911</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Fishley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 07:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/#comment-112911</guid>
		<description>Many thanks for this article Bill. It will be of great help to me.
Stan Fishley</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many thanks for this article Bill. It will be of great help to me.<br />
Stan Fishley</p>
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		<title>By: John FG McMahon</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-112865</link>
		<dc:creator>John FG McMahon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 22:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/#comment-112865</guid>
		<description>David,

These Islamists are rather myopic and I&#039;m sure that reality is not their strong point. I read once that a cleric from Iran was asked in an interview as to why Islamic women are not permitted to drive. He replied without hesitation: &quot;Because it would look stupid&quot;. Being rational is not a characteristic that Islam encourages. Their distorted logic and twisted reasoning is guided and formed by the rantings and ravings written by someone born in the 6th century AD. Have you seen or heard any humour from anyone of them?

John McMahon, Kolonga, Qld</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>These Islamists are rather myopic and I&#8217;m sure that reality is not their strong point. I read once that a cleric from Iran was asked in an interview as to why Islamic women are not permitted to drive. He replied without hesitation: &#8220;Because it would look stupid&#8221;. Being rational is not a characteristic that Islam encourages. Their distorted logic and twisted reasoning is guided and formed by the rantings and ravings written by someone born in the 6th century AD. Have you seen or heard any humour from anyone of them?</p>
<p>John McMahon, Kolonga, Qld</p>
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