Michael, you disagree that revivals lead to peace. If you read Rees Howells, Intercessor, you will find that it does.

Roger Marks

I disagree that revivals lead to peace. Christians look to rival like some Marxist look to revolution. Both groups believe that both are inevitable; both groups dream about their occurrence and both groups send large amounts of time, thought and money working towards those eschatological hopes. The difference is that revolutions tend to initiate violence while rivals have violence inflicted upon them.

A Biblical template is supplied by the healing of the demon processed fortune teller by Paul and Silas (Acts16:16ff). Out of frustration, Paul cast out a demon from a woman. The charitable act got Paul and Silas thrown into jail because it threatened the income of some of the town’s wealthy citizens.

It is a small example of the rule that conversion leads healing leads to lasting social change. If many turn to Christ it affects nations and beyond. Many good church folk resisted the rise of Methodism for it challenged the established norms. The Wesley brothers preaching about Christ had consequences for the social and economic basis of Britain. I have read about riots preventing the either of the brothers from preaching near a town. That is why they preached in open fields.

Though they were not agents of social change, the converts were. However, the changes were resisted at every point. The film Amazing Grace illustrated the resistance to the abolition of slavery. One institution that came from that revival was the Trade Unions. Early Union cells were based on local communities called ‘chapels’ for that is who formed them. Indeed, one former secretary of the British Labour Party said that the labour movement owed more Methodism than it did to Marx.

Revivals lead to social reformation because, as part of their personal reformation, converts work to correct the injustices within society. Personal change leads to social change because it reforming their lives a convert wants to change the social condition that entrenched evil in their former lives. Revivals inject energy into the thirst for justice. Every time Christ comes it is with a sword (Matt 10:34).

Michael Boswell

I have long enjoyed reading about Smith Wigglesworth; his love of truth and hatred of lies, his devotion to the Word, his intimacy with God born of obedience.

Garth Penglase

Roger, I think you said it all in the first paragraph. The concept of holiness, humility and self-sacrifice as the core of a Christian’s life has indeed been alien to us. I look forward to reading Rees Howell’s story.

Garth Penglase

After 28 years in Australia, I have yet to met one leader who comes anywhere near the way of life that Rees Howell lived. They seem more interested in their power and position, whereas Rees Howell was only interested in denying himself so that Jesus was pre-eminent. Today’s leaders do not have the servant spirit that he had.

He worked from 7 -4.30 each day in the coal mine before he gave up his job, walked home, had tea and spent every weeknight at the chapel and on weekends he spent all his time visiting people and praying for the sick.

He lived on two meals a day of bread and cheese and soup so that his money was not wasted on non-essentials.

He would spend days on Black Mountain praying and interceeding for others.

Like Bill, having studied revivals for many years and looking at the current church scene, I have a feeling that a revival will bypass most church leaders. I have a feeling that it will come through one church that is relatively insignificant, who have sufficient humility to say we need God.

There is only one way you can make that happen and that is via desperate pray until you get him.

I have been through two revivals in England. The first was a little Baptist Church where a handful of us decided that there had to be more so we met every Tuesday evening to pray and seek God. After 6 months of this we had the breakthrough.

Before I left England I was in a church for 10 years that was in revival for 30 years. Nearly every time we met God showed up and did miraculous things.

We did away with platforms, pulpits, programmes, preachers and pastors. It was just us and the Holy Spirit who took charge and used whoever he wanted to minister life and liberty.

The Welsh revival went 24/7 and people came and went as they were able to (that is why they didn’t need larger buildings). No one was in charge of the meeting because that meant the Holy Spirit wasn’t. They left it to him to decide who did what and who got converted, convicted or crucified (metaphorically).

Compared to the average church meeting here, and most of them are average, the Welsh revival meeting was a mess. I think most leaders today would say “stop, we must do things decently and in order” which means a man made programme that the leader has control over.

There was a lot of confession of sin, falling on their knees before a holy God, the manifest presence of God was palpable, hence the conviction of sin, and many were delivered from demon possession.

It doesn’t take a brain to work out that the church and the world in Australia are nearly identical. Christians are chasing money, prestige, popularity, power; it is totally divided; christians are divorcing, having abortions, siding with the homosexual cause, living together, beating their wives. no wonder it is totally irrelevant.

Roger Marks

-Evans, Eifion, Revival Comes to Wales [1859]. Evangelical Press of Wales, 1959.
-Evans, Eifion, The Welsh Revival of 1904. Evangelical Press of Wales, 1969.
-Jones, Brynmor, Voices from the Welsh Revival 1904-1905. Evangelical Press of Wales, 1995.
-Phillips, Thomas, The Welsh Revival [1859]. Banner of Truth Trust, 1860, 1989.
-Roberts, Richard owen, Glory Filled the land: A Trilogy on the Welsh Revival (1904-1905) [H. Elvet Lewis, C. Campbell Morgan, I.V. Neprash]. International Awakening Press, 1989.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

I remember a quote by a preceding Archbishop of Canterbury where at the end of his life he had come to realise that if he wanted to see change in his family, his community and in the world it had to start with change in him. Revival starts with me coming to the end of myself and finding God’s fullness in my weakness, through which He can then do wondrous works.

Garth Penglase

You make a lot of good points here. I have long maintained that we need both personal revival and social reformation. But if push comes to shove, and we had to choose just one (although I think we can and should strive for both – it is not either/or but both/and), I too would go for revival (but please don’t quote me on that!)

I have also long said that the reason the world is in a mess is because the church is in a mess, and the reason the church is in a mess is because you and I are in a mess. We simply need to start getting serious about God, and stop our trivial pursuits and selfish concerns. But as you say, that may sadly only come if and when we get desperate enough.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch