Comments on: On the Rights of Children and Pedophiles http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/ Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day... Sat, 11 Feb 2012 02:03:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Andrew Lacey http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/comment-page-1/#comment-87934 Andrew Lacey Fri, 18 Jul 2008 02:45:30 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/#comment-87934 I think the best thing to do in the case of a church dealing with a paedophile is to let the police decide. If he becomes born again the old man is dead. But just as there will be many who stand before the judgement seat of Christ and call out Lord, Lord, there will be those who call themselves Christian who are not. What are the two groups that have the highest incidences of pedophilia? Why churches and sports groups? It is not just the catholic church that has covered these things up. I have seen many 'churches' where the policy of forgiveness was over extended and it was not until the law became involved that it became an issue. What is of greater concern is the aftermarth of the world youth day week. Many bishops have diplomatic immunity (see what the pope did to get out of a court case where he was being sued for protecting pedophiles in texas). He simply got out because he has his own country Vatican City. If you are in a church don't let 'grace' get confused with stupidity. Your obligation is to God first, your family second, and to the law third. Do what you can to obey God hence protect your family and obey the government. If you know the movements of a paedophile inform the police straight away!!! Andrew Lacey I think the best thing to do in the case of a church dealing with a paedophile is to let the police decide. If he becomes born again the old man is dead. But just as there will be many who stand before the judgement seat of Christ and call out Lord, Lord, there will be those who call themselves Christian who are not. What are the two groups that have the highest incidences of pedophilia? Why churches and sports groups? It is not just the catholic church that has covered these things up. I have seen many ‘churches’ where the policy of forgiveness was over extended and it was not until the law became involved that it became an issue. What is of greater concern is the aftermarth of the world youth day week. Many bishops have diplomatic immunity (see what the pope did to get out of a court case where he was being sued for protecting pedophiles in texas). He simply got out because he has his own country Vatican City.
If you are in a church don’t let ‘grace’ get confused with stupidity. Your obligation is to God first, your family second, and to the law third. Do what you can to obey God hence protect your family and obey the government. If you know the movements of a paedophile inform the police straight away!!!
Andrew Lacey

]]> By: Michael Mifsud http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/comment-page-1/#comment-87573 Michael Mifsud Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:13:27 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/#comment-87573 Thats him. Thanks very much Ewan. Michael Mifsud Thats him. Thanks very much Ewan.
Michael Mifsud

]]> By: Ewan http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/comment-page-1/#comment-87404 Ewan Mon, 14 Jul 2008 23:50:39 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/#comment-87404 Michael, It would have been Sheriff Joe Arpaio you are thinking of. http://www.sheriffjoe.org/ Ewan McDonald. Michael, It would have been Sheriff Joe Arpaio you are thinking of.
www.sheriffjoe.org/

Ewan McDonald.

]]> By: Andrew Dinham http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/comment-page-1/#comment-87398 Andrew Dinham Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:14:59 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/#comment-87398 Hi Bill I agree that a Megan's Law system would be most appropriate for pedophiles, however, having seen some documentaries about sex offender registers (US based), they can have some very nasty consequences for young people who have ended up on such registers for life (or for a long period of time) for simply having sex and/or sexually experimenting as teens and young adults and being caught by parents/caregivers.The consequences of being on such a register for those young people has been nothing short of devastating and debilitating for their study, job and overall future prospects. Therefore I would not like to see a sexual offender register which punishes anything other than pedophilia. Andrew Dinham, Hope Valley, SA. Hi Bill

I agree that a Megan’s Law system would be most appropriate for pedophiles, however, having seen some documentaries about sex offender registers (US based), they can have some very nasty consequences for young people who have ended up on such registers for life (or for a long period of time) for simply having sex and/or sexually experimenting as teens and young adults and being caught by parents/caregivers.The consequences of being on such a register for those young people has been nothing short of devastating and debilitating for their study, job and overall future prospects. Therefore I would not like to see a sexual offender register which punishes anything other than pedophilia.

Andrew Dinham, Hope Valley, SA.

]]> By: Michael Mifsud http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/comment-page-1/#comment-87395 Michael Mifsud Mon, 14 Jul 2008 21:50:00 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/#comment-87395 Ray Miles, I agree 100%. I think forgivness should be forthcoming but forgetfulness? Hardly. As Jesus instructs us - be forgiving but cunning in the ways of the world. Christians should not be doormats. Also, western society has moved away from a punishment based justice system to a victim based justice system. Certainly offenders should be reconciled with society - but they must be punished. What happened to the chain gangs of old? We should return our jail system to something similiar to hard-labour style punishment - no gym work for example. I recall seeing a USA jail warden doing this exactly. His prison was a bunch of tents in the middle of the arizona desert. Inmates performed hard labour all day and had no other physical outlet (though they had plenty of mental outlest - like a library, education, degress etc). He had almost a 100% assimilation rate back into society (no re-offending). Unfortunetly I can't find a link about this particular warden. I recall watching a docomunetary on his prison back in the early Zeros. Michael Mifsud Ray Miles,
I agree 100%. I think forgivness should be forthcoming but forgetfulness? Hardly. As Jesus instructs us – be forgiving but cunning in the ways of the world. Christians should not be doormats.

Also, western society has moved away from a punishment based justice system to a victim based justice system. Certainly offenders should be reconciled with society – but they must be punished. What happened to the chain gangs of old? We should return our jail system to something similiar to hard-labour style punishment – no gym work for example.

I recall seeing a USA jail warden doing this exactly. His prison was a bunch of tents in the middle of the arizona desert. Inmates performed hard labour all day and had no other physical outlet (though they had plenty of mental outlest – like a library, education, degress etc). He had almost a 100% assimilation rate back into society (no re-offending).

Unfortunetly I can’t find a link about this particular warden. I recall watching a docomunetary on his prison back in the early Zeros.

Michael Mifsud

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/comment-page-1/#comment-87343 Bill Muehlenberg Mon, 14 Jul 2008 12:30:44 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/#comment-87343 Thanks guys A number of good comments here. I can’t single them all out. But I think Ray is correct in what he says about a person who intends on sinning and shows no signs of repentance or trying to turn things around. And Richard is quite right in saying that forgiveness does not necessarily mean the consequences of our actions simply disappear. I have written about this same issue here: http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/14/sin-forgiveness-and-consequences/ Keep those great comments coming. Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks guys

A number of good comments here. I can’t single them all out. But I think Ray is correct in what he says about a person who intends on sinning and shows no signs of repentance or trying to turn things around.

And Richard is quite right in saying that forgiveness does not necessarily mean the consequences of our actions simply disappear. I have written about this same issue here: www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/14/sin-forgiveness-and-consequences/

Keep those great comments coming.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

]]> By: Richard Coonan http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/comment-page-1/#comment-87337 Richard Coonan Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:31:38 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/#comment-87337 With regard to forgiveness, I look to the example of David and Nathan over Bathseba. While David was forgiven, he still had to face the consequences of his actions. There is a misunderstanding about forgiveness that says that we pretend the offence never happened, which is not what scripture says. There is a strong effort in the USA and in the Netherlands to make pedophilia legal by portraying themselves as victims of society. Having worked in the corrections area I know that many pedophiles consider themselves victims, and show no sign of changing their behaviour (as evidenced by repeat offending). I fear that if the courts do not act to deal with pedophiles, there are those who will take the law into their hands on the pretext that the law is not protecting their children, so they are forced to. Therefore action now is necessary to prevent a worse situation developing by politicians and the courts to preserve law and order. Richard Coonan With regard to forgiveness, I look to the example of David and Nathan over Bathseba. While David was forgiven, he still had to face the consequences of his actions. There is a misunderstanding about forgiveness that says that we pretend the offence never happened, which is not what scripture says.
There is a strong effort in the USA and in the Netherlands to make pedophilia legal by portraying themselves as victims of society.
Having worked in the corrections area I know that many pedophiles consider themselves victims, and show no sign of changing their behaviour (as evidenced by repeat offending).
I fear that if the courts do not act to deal with pedophiles, there are those who will take the law into their hands on the pretext that the law is not protecting their children, so they are forced to. Therefore action now is necessary to prevent a worse situation developing by politicians and the courts to preserve law and order.
Richard Coonan

]]> By: Ray Miles http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/comment-page-1/#comment-87334 Ray Miles Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:18:25 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/#comment-87334 Bill, thanks for your good article on an important issue and for the others who have contributed. I note in your original (and I agree) that QC Faris mentions degrees of paedophilia. While I'm sure we would all acknowledge that sin is sin, and all sin is rebellion against God (‘black and white’), how we should respond to these people is another matter and may vary. One of the problems with Dennis Ferguson, as I understand it, is that he has no intention of renouncing his paedophile values or ways. The Lord Jesus taught that entertaining thoughts of sinful acts are just as if they had been committed, so it would seem to me inappropriate to forgive someone who still intends to sin. (I do not believe God would look favourably on such an insincere request for forgiveness without the repentance you did mention.) We can forgive past sin, but if a person like Ferguson intends to continue sinning is it really past? It would seem that perhaps the only way to be repatriated from the grasp of paedophilia is by the touch of God. And I don’t mean a “decision” and claim to “follow” Christ. I mean a real touch of God in the life of a person that results in being truly “born again” – a totally new life in Christ. The onus is on these people who have committed such crimes to demonstrate that they have reformed their ways. You shall know them by their fruit. So, although we should always be ready with the ‘olive branch’ and make it clear that we are, I do not believe we should be hasty to offer it until we are comfortable that it is time to do so. (Personally, I would see this as being a Holy Spirit produced peace in my spirit about the issue. Of course, this requires a good relationship with God to begin with – it is not like ‘pulling a rabbit out of a hat’.) As stated in your article, there but for the grace of God go I, which should motivate us to pray for these terribly lost individuals to also receive God’s grace. Apologies for the length. Many thanks and God bless, Ray Miles Bill, thanks for your good article on an important issue and for the others who have contributed.

I note in your original (and I agree) that QC Faris mentions degrees of paedophilia. While I’m sure we would all acknowledge that sin is sin, and all sin is rebellion against God (‘black and white’), how we should respond to these people is another matter and may vary.

One of the problems with Dennis Ferguson, as I understand it, is that he has no intention of renouncing his paedophile values or ways. The Lord Jesus taught that entertaining thoughts of sinful acts are just as if they had been committed, so it would seem to me inappropriate to forgive someone who still intends to sin. (I do not believe God would look favourably on such an insincere request for forgiveness without the repentance you did mention.) We can forgive past sin, but if a person like Ferguson intends to continue sinning is it really past?

It would seem that perhaps the only way to be repatriated from the grasp of paedophilia is by the touch of God. And I don’t mean a “decision” and claim to “follow” Christ. I mean a real touch of God in the life of a person that results in being truly “born again” – a totally new life in Christ.

The onus is on these people who have committed such crimes to demonstrate that they have reformed their ways. You shall know them by their fruit. So, although we should always be ready with the ‘olive branch’ and make it clear that we are, I do not believe we should be hasty to offer it until we are comfortable that it is time to do so. (Personally, I would see this as being a Holy Spirit produced peace in my spirit about the issue. Of course, this requires a good relationship with God to begin with – it is not like ‘pulling a rabbit out of a hat’.)

As stated in your article, there but for the grace of God go I, which should motivate us to pray for these terribly lost individuals to also receive God’s grace.

Apologies for the length. Many thanks and God bless,
Ray Miles

]]> By: Jim Junkins PNG http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/comment-page-1/#comment-87287 Jim Junkins PNG Mon, 14 Jul 2008 03:41:19 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/#comment-87287 Bill, This is the mentality of calling evil good, and calling good....WHAT? It is going to get worst. The response to the problem is just to expect it and expect to have trouble as a Christian too. The Lord wants those folk born again trusting the blood of Jesus our creator and Lord. You got guts and you are doing the world a blessing...BIG time. Christian Love and Prayers to you folk. Br Jim Junkins Bill,
This is the mentality of calling evil good, and calling good….WHAT? It is going to get worst. The response to the problem is just to expect it and expect to have trouble as a Christian too. The Lord wants those folk born again trusting the blood of Jesus our creator and Lord. You got guts and you are doing the world a blessing…BIG time.
Christian Love and Prayers to you folk.
Br Jim Junkins

]]> By: Michael Mifsud http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/comment-page-1/#comment-87239 Michael Mifsud Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:03:48 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/11/on-the-rights-of-children-and-pedophiles/#comment-87239 As homosexuality becomes more accepted, which in turn increases its frequency expect an equivalent increase in paedophilia. It is not coincidental that paedophilia is mostly dominated by males who target boys. Michael Mifsud As homosexuality becomes more accepted, which in turn increases its frequency expect an equivalent increase in paedophilia. It is not coincidental that paedophilia is mostly dominated by males who target boys.
Michael Mifsud

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