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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts on Islam and Australia</title>
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	<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/</link>
	<description>Bill Muehlenberg&#039;s commentary on issues of the day...</description>
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		<title>By: Sam Newton</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/comment-page-1/#comment-104400</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Newton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 10:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/#comment-104400</guid>
		<description>Its incredible how people can so easily look at another and be so concerned about the faults of others and forget about the faults of themselves. The Bible says in Matthew 7:3 &quot;And why worry about the speck in your friends eye when you have a log in your own&quot; its amazing how People will be quick to judge by the way we talk, the colour of our skin and the poisition in soicety we are in. 
If we can let people be and not try to change them to become like how we want them to be then its more possible for us to make a difference in their lives. christians have have every right to Love the muslims and treat them as they are. The Bible says in John 3:17 &quot;God sent his Son into the World not to Judge the World, but to save the world through Him&quot;. We should have christ as our mentor  and remember that God loves all people so wants to save all people.
Sam Newton</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its incredible how people can so easily look at another and be so concerned about the faults of others and forget about the faults of themselves. The Bible says in Matthew 7:3 &#8220;And why worry about the speck in your friends eye when you have a log in your own&#8221; its amazing how People will be quick to judge by the way we talk, the colour of our skin and the poisition in soicety we are in.<br />
If we can let people be and not try to change them to become like how we want them to be then its more possible for us to make a difference in their lives. christians have have every right to Love the muslims and treat them as they are. The Bible says in John 3:17 &#8220;God sent his Son into the World not to Judge the World, but to save the world through Him&#8221;. We should have christ as our mentor  and remember that God loves all people so wants to save all people.<br />
Sam Newton</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Robinson</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/comment-page-1/#comment-72161</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/#comment-72161</guid>
		<description>Bill, I am surprised at your apparent uncertainty in this article, it is so unlike you. The evidence is overwhelming and the church and governments have no answers, or policies or understanding, except accommodation in the short term.

The first 700 years of Christian evangelism across the pagan Arab world appears to have been peaceful and relatively successful. Then came Islam and 1400 years later its geo - political history is written in blood. Jesus never endorsed the shedding of blood by His people,
 Muhammad clearly does. The Qu&#039;ran and Hadith give the infidel three options - reversion ( all peoples are Muslims, the infidel is a back slider), severe subjugation without rights and a review of death every ten years,called Dhimmitude, or simply death.

What the West calls a &#039;moderate&#039; Muslim, they call apostate and according to the Qu&#039;ran they have to be re educated or killed. Such behaviour is happening today.

The European Arab Dialogue [EAD] has been underway since 1973 and has been a successful Islamic policy of political territorial gains. European leadership is looking for trade advantage and to be a countervailing power to the USA and the Muslim is looking for Sharia rule. 

Appeasement by war weary European leadership prefer dialogue but have failed to understand the spirit of Islam - Allah has spoken absolutely - there is no other way.

Under the now highly developed &#039;Replacement&#039; policy all of history is about pre Islamic peoples. Biblical patriarchs , prophets, even Jesus were Muslims. Israel is being written out of their &#039;Replacement&#039; history.

I am amazed at those Christians who would think they can convert a Muslim. Conversions can be identified in single numbers and immigrations policies allow thousands. Christians have not been able to &#039;convert&#039; secular humanism in the West by dialogue or theology, in an environment of peaceful co- existence, so what make us think that we can convert a &#039;spiritually militant&#039; Islam?

We miss the point that there Islam is militant both spiritually and politically. Christians operate successfully at neither level. 

I intend to purchase the book Islam and Dhimmitude by Bat Ye&#039;or and give it to Stephen Smith our Foreign Affairs Minister - Our government leaders have to read such quality research before making inane statements publicly such as &#039;Islam is not a violent religion&#039;.

Ray Robinson
Wollongong</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, I am surprised at your apparent uncertainty in this article, it is so unlike you. The evidence is overwhelming and the church and governments have no answers, or policies or understanding, except accommodation in the short term.</p>
<p>The first 700 years of Christian evangelism across the pagan Arab world appears to have been peaceful and relatively successful. Then came Islam and 1400 years later its geo &#8211; political history is written in blood. Jesus never endorsed the shedding of blood by His people,<br />
 Muhammad clearly does. The Qu&#8217;ran and Hadith give the infidel three options &#8211; reversion ( all peoples are Muslims, the infidel is a back slider), severe subjugation without rights and a review of death every ten years,called Dhimmitude, or simply death.</p>
<p>What the West calls a &#8216;moderate&#8217; Muslim, they call apostate and according to the Qu&#8217;ran they have to be re educated or killed. Such behaviour is happening today.</p>
<p>The European Arab Dialogue [EAD] has been underway since 1973 and has been a successful Islamic policy of political territorial gains. European leadership is looking for trade advantage and to be a countervailing power to the USA and the Muslim is looking for Sharia rule. </p>
<p>Appeasement by war weary European leadership prefer dialogue but have failed to understand the spirit of Islam &#8211; Allah has spoken absolutely &#8211; there is no other way.</p>
<p>Under the now highly developed &#8216;Replacement&#8217; policy all of history is about pre Islamic peoples. Biblical patriarchs , prophets, even Jesus were Muslims. Israel is being written out of their &#8216;Replacement&#8217; history.</p>
<p>I am amazed at those Christians who would think they can convert a Muslim. Conversions can be identified in single numbers and immigrations policies allow thousands. Christians have not been able to &#8216;convert&#8217; secular humanism in the West by dialogue or theology, in an environment of peaceful co- existence, so what make us think that we can convert a &#8216;spiritually militant&#8217; Islam?</p>
<p>We miss the point that there Islam is militant both spiritually and politically. Christians operate successfully at neither level. </p>
<p>I intend to purchase the book Islam and Dhimmitude by Bat Ye&#8217;or and give it to Stephen Smith our Foreign Affairs Minister &#8211; Our government leaders have to read such quality research before making inane statements publicly such as &#8216;Islam is not a violent religion&#8217;.</p>
<p>Ray Robinson<br />
Wollongong</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/comment-page-1/#comment-72110</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 10:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/#comment-72110</guid>
		<description>David, your welcome. For all the Australians reading this site if you want to find out more about Wurmbrand and Voice of the Martyrs, you can get his autobiography Tortured For Christ for free (one per family) with a subscription to the Voice of the Martyrs monthly newsletter. The website is http://www.persecution.com.au the same one I referred to in an earlier post. I&#039;ve got a copy and when I get time to read it I&#039;m sure I&#039;ll gain a greater appreciation for how David Skinner reports he could say &quot;in America, I experience ten times more demonic spiritual oppression fighting to make me draw back (to keep silent) than I ever experienced in a dungeon.”
Matthew Mulvaney</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, your welcome. For all the Australians reading this site if you want to find out more about Wurmbrand and Voice of the Martyrs, you can get his autobiography Tortured For Christ for free (one per family) with a subscription to the Voice of the Martyrs monthly newsletter. The website is <a href="http://www.persecution.com.au" rel="nofollow">www.persecution.com.au</a> the same one I referred to in an earlier post. I&#8217;ve got a copy and when I get time to read it I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;ll gain a greater appreciation for how David Skinner reports he could say &#8220;in America, I experience ten times more demonic spiritual oppression fighting to make me draw back (to keep silent) than I ever experienced in a dungeon.”<br />
Matthew Mulvaney</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/comment-page-1/#comment-72073</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 03:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/#comment-72073</guid>
		<description>This article about Islamic Schools in Africa is really worth reading. I wouldn&#039;t dream of ever wanting an Islamic school here until we are sure that the abuse of people (under the guise of Islam) no longer exists. This is truly the work of Satan and obviously not an isolated incident.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89793756

Paul Harris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article about Islamic Schools in Africa is really worth reading. I wouldn&#8217;t dream of ever wanting an Islamic school here until we are sure that the abuse of people (under the guise of Islam) no longer exists. This is truly the work of Satan and obviously not an isolated incident.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89793756" rel="nofollow">www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89793756</a></p>
<p>Paul Harris</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Muehlenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/comment-page-1/#comment-71947</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Muehlenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 09:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/#comment-71947</guid>
		<description>Thanks Sally

There is no question as to a strong Christian heritage in Australia. My point was that this is even more the case in the US. The primary purpose of the original Pilgrim Fathers was to seek for religious freedom, to establish a light on the hill, and so on. So there was a very real sense of biblical destiny associated with the early settlement of America. The later push for independence was another matter, but large hunks of Christian conviction can be found there as well.

As to Christian nations: yes and no. Most of the West was largely the product of the Judeo-Christian heritage, and for centuries to talk of Western civilisation was to talk of Christian civilisation. The two were one and the same in many respects.

But of course today most of the West is post-Christian, if not anti-Christian. Certainly in terms of the ruling elites, a large wave of secularism has swept over the West. It is quickly in the business of renouncing its Christian past, and enacting laws which are decidedly anti-Christian. So it is a mixed bag. I certainly think believers should seek to exert Christian influence in every area of society, but I am aware that this is a far cry from seeking for some sort of theocracy.

Complicated questions these, although I have written about such issues elsewhere on this site. But they are certainly worth thinking about and exploring further.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Sally</p>
<p>There is no question as to a strong Christian heritage in Australia. My point was that this is even more the case in the US. The primary purpose of the original Pilgrim Fathers was to seek for religious freedom, to establish a light on the hill, and so on. So there was a very real sense of biblical destiny associated with the early settlement of America. The later push for independence was another matter, but large hunks of Christian conviction can be found there as well.</p>
<p>As to Christian nations: yes and no. Most of the West was largely the product of the Judeo-Christian heritage, and for centuries to talk of Western civilisation was to talk of Christian civilisation. The two were one and the same in many respects.</p>
<p>But of course today most of the West is post-Christian, if not anti-Christian. Certainly in terms of the ruling elites, a large wave of secularism has swept over the West. It is quickly in the business of renouncing its Christian past, and enacting laws which are decidedly anti-Christian. So it is a mixed bag. I certainly think believers should seek to exert Christian influence in every area of society, but I am aware that this is a far cry from seeking for some sort of theocracy.</p>
<p>Complicated questions these, although I have written about such issues elsewhere on this site. But they are certainly worth thinking about and exploring further.</p>
<p>Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</p>
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		<title>By: Sally Jackson</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/comment-page-1/#comment-71893</link>
		<dc:creator>Sally Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 03:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/#comment-71893</guid>
		<description>Hi Bill,
I really appreciate your posts and wisdom on all these matters. I noted your comment on Australia not having the same clearly christian foundation that America has? We as a constitutional monarcy and daughter of England have the blessing of a Christian heritage fought and paid for in faith by incredible men and women of God. America on the other hand tried to achieve a similar result through rebellion. Their intention was honourable but I don&#039;t think their actions were. They took a spiritual shortcut and rebelled against their king, even King David refused to do this. Can nations be christian? I believe yes. Laws attempt to say something is wrong and something is right...ie morality.....what is morality based on......religion. So a society who has it&#039;s laws based on the law of God is a Christian nation, not a nation of christians necessarily, but a Christian nation.  &quot;You shall know them by their fruit&quot;....the west is mostly made up of Christian nations and it is this foundation of love and freedom that Jesus taught us that makes us the richest most envied nations of the world. Most people living in Australia have no idea about where this freedom comes from, they just think we&#039;re lucky.
What do you think? I am interested in your opinion.
Sally Jackson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bill,<br />
I really appreciate your posts and wisdom on all these matters. I noted your comment on Australia not having the same clearly christian foundation that America has? We as a constitutional monarcy and daughter of England have the blessing of a Christian heritage fought and paid for in faith by incredible men and women of God. America on the other hand tried to achieve a similar result through rebellion. Their intention was honourable but I don&#8217;t think their actions were. They took a spiritual shortcut and rebelled against their king, even King David refused to do this. Can nations be christian? I believe yes. Laws attempt to say something is wrong and something is right&#8230;ie morality&#8230;..what is morality based on&#8230;&#8230;religion. So a society who has it&#8217;s laws based on the law of God is a Christian nation, not a nation of christians necessarily, but a Christian nation.  &#8220;You shall know them by their fruit&#8221;&#8230;.the west is mostly made up of Christian nations and it is this foundation of love and freedom that Jesus taught us that makes us the richest most envied nations of the world. Most people living in Australia have no idea about where this freedom comes from, they just think we&#8217;re lucky.<br />
What do you think? I am interested in your opinion.<br />
Sally Jackson</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Phillips</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/comment-page-1/#comment-71549</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 02:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/#comment-71549</guid>
		<description>I did not say Christians were not involved Bill, but the Deist influence is strong, material and inescapable.

Regards

Robert Phillips</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did not say Christians were not involved Bill, but the Deist influence is strong, material and inescapable.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Robert Phillips</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Muehlenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/comment-page-1/#comment-71539</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Muehlenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 01:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/#comment-71539</guid>
		<description>Thanks Robert

My only disagreement with your comments would be to argue that while many of the American founders were deists, many were also biblical Christians. 

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Robert</p>
<p>My only disagreement with your comments would be to argue that while many of the American founders were deists, many were also biblical Christians. </p>
<p>Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Phillips</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/comment-page-1/#comment-71534</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 00:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/#comment-71534</guid>
		<description>Hi Bill,
I note your comment: &quot;And while Australia had a substantial and significant Christian heritage, it does not quite compare to the very clear Christian founding of America.&quot;
Yet for all of its &quot;Christian Founding&quot; the American nation has foundered on its Constitution, in that it has written God, in particular Jesus Christ, out of the script. It is a document written by Deists. Furthermore, Australia has followed America&#039;s &quot;example&quot; and copied the US constitutions&#039; separation of Church and State. France is another good example of this process.
Consequently, we in the west are now completely &quot;hamstrung&quot; as it were, in opposing any religious belief system that might come along that would  violently and seditiously oppose the Kingdom of Christ. 

At this time, that would be Islam....

Well, it didn&#039;t do England any good having a State Church I hear you say........yes I agree, England is in an apalling state. But this is ultimately due to the Sovereign, her Majesty the Queen and Her Ministers Spiritual and Temporal not Honouring and being faithful to the Coronation Oath that She swore to uphold. 

What is required is faithful law makers and faithful leaders. As it says in Proverbs 14:34 &quot;Righteousness exalts a nation, But sin is a reproach to any people&quot;.

Robert Phillips</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bill,<br />
I note your comment: &#8220;And while Australia had a substantial and significant Christian heritage, it does not quite compare to the very clear Christian founding of America.&#8221;<br />
Yet for all of its &#8220;Christian Founding&#8221; the American nation has foundered on its Constitution, in that it has written God, in particular Jesus Christ, out of the script. It is a document written by Deists. Furthermore, Australia has followed America&#8217;s &#8220;example&#8221; and copied the US constitutions&#8217; separation of Church and State. France is another good example of this process.<br />
Consequently, we in the west are now completely &#8220;hamstrung&#8221; as it were, in opposing any religious belief system that might come along that would  violently and seditiously oppose the Kingdom of Christ. </p>
<p>At this time, that would be Islam&#8230;.</p>
<p>Well, it didn&#8217;t do England any good having a State Church I hear you say&#8230;&#8230;..yes I agree, England is in an apalling state. But this is ultimately due to the Sovereign, her Majesty the Queen and Her Ministers Spiritual and Temporal not Honouring and being faithful to the Coronation Oath that She swore to uphold. </p>
<p>What is required is faithful law makers and faithful leaders. As it says in Proverbs 14:34 &#8220;Righteousness exalts a nation, But sin is a reproach to any people&#8221;.</p>
<p>Robert Phillips</p>
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		<title>By: david skinner</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/comment-page-1/#comment-71190</link>
		<dc:creator>david skinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/14/thoughts-on-islam-and-australia/#comment-71190</guid>
		<description>Thanks Matthew for that link. The point I am perhaps simplistically labouring is that we should not be talking about evolutionary humanism/homosexuality/ bortion etc in isolation from thinking about Islam. The only reason Islam is taking such a hold in western European civilisatiion is precisely because of the secularists. Both are working in concert to destroy us.
David Skinner, UK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Matthew for that link. The point I am perhaps simplistically labouring is that we should not be talking about evolutionary humanism/homosexuality/ bortion etc in isolation from thinking about Islam. The only reason Islam is taking such a hold in western European civilisatiion is precisely because of the secularists. Both are working in concert to destroy us.<br />
David Skinner, UK</p>
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