Why on earth would anyone choose to be Christian when they face a life of rejection, discrimination and opprobrium, particularly from homosexuals (and atheists, and humanists, and marxists etc.)?

(sorry. can’t bring myself to use the word ‘gay’ since, from my experience, it’s such a misnomer to use that word to describe practicing homosexuals)

Garth Penglase

Sorry, but wrong again. Both clubs and schools pass judgment on the character, values and views of their members or staff all the time. What is your problem with that? Should schools not check for paedophiles or those with criminal records? Should Greenpeace be forced to accept Japanese whalers? Should a Jewish small business have to employ David Irving?

Clearly private religious bodies have every right to hire religious people reflecting their ethos and values. Indeed, I am not aware of any atheist organisation advertising in the newspapers for a new CEO with the words: “all welcome, religious beliefs do not matter”. So please spare us this silliness Steve.

And I will have to call your bluff once again here. Racial characteristics are innate and not a matter of choice. In contrast, plenty of the more honest homosexuals argue for genuine choice in their sexuality. Are you calling them liars?

Your last point is equally defenceless. You might as well argue, “Why would people choose to be criminals given all the opprobrium and opposition they know they will get?” People make choices for all sorts of reasons, and many are quite happy to make choices knowing that there may be some negative consequences. Cigarette smokers are a classic example.

Moreover, given how homosexuality has become the flavour of the month, your argument can easily be turned on its head: given how much celebrity status is heaped on all things homosexual these days, why wouldn’t a person want to embrace that lifestyle? It is the one standing up for heterosexuality these days that has become the new social outcast and pariah.

And the facts on sexual change are clearly there for those who will accept evidence over ideology. Here are just two examples: The decidedly non-religious Masters and Johnson Clinic in St. Louis has treated hundreds of homosexuals and bisexuals. Masters reports that they have successfully “changed” more than half of their homosexual clients, and higher than 75 per cent of bisexuals. And a recent study of 200 homosexuals and lesbians who had been given psychotherapy treatment found that 78 per cent of males and 95 per cent of females reported a change in their sexuality.

So once again, it is our side with the evidence, and your side with the rhetoric and the ideology. Who is the one living by faith here?

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

Your football club analogy is fundamentally flawed. Clubs offer employment to people who have the skills and ability to do the job. There would be hell to pay if Geelong or any other club started rejecting good players because they were Christians, or homosexuals. Yet you support the right of a school to reject a capable and fully-qualified teacher because the school has passed judgement on that teacher’s private life or beliefs. That’s no different from rejecting someone on the basis of race or gender.

As for your assertion that anyone can change their sexual orientation, you run in the face of professional opinion on the matter. Why on earth would anyone choose to be gay when they face life of rejection, discrimination and opprobrium, particularly from Christians?

Steve Angelino, WA

There is always going to be discriminatory laws. Indeed it is necessary.

Like many words, an unemotional word such as ‘discrimination’ has become emotionally-charged in a negative way. It has also become over-used and mis-represented. It is good to discriminate in some areas and bad to discriminate in others. It is up to a thinking populace to have the freedom choose what forms of discrimination are acceptable within the framework of law. For instance, people should not be allowed to engage in sexual relationships with minors, for the obvious protection of our children.

As to ’separation of church and state’. Another phrase that is widely mis-understood and mis-construed. Bill has written some good articles on this site about what this constitutes and the boundaries that it makes. To say that a certain religious group or leaning should have no say in the governing of a country is moronic, just as it is ridiculous to ignore the history of the foundations of the western culture as being borne out of Christian culture.

Garth Penglase

In a 2005 ‘Australian Humanist’ publication, Max Wallace concludes his piece, titled “Is There a Separation of Church and State in Australia and New Zealand?”:

“Excluding a few religionists, academia has simply missed the point that there is no separation of church and state in Australia and New Zealand”

In his opening remarks in the same piece, I would disagree with Wallace on exactly what ’separation of church and state’ means in the USA. But the phrase itself seems to come with a lot of baggage both here and abroad. I cannot count the number of times in a daily telegraph or SMH forum that I have heard someone comment that the church and its supporters, especially Christians MP’s, should shut up (re issues such as RU-486 or ESCR etc…), because after all, ‘haven’t you heard of separation of church and state?’

Ignoring the fact that we do not find such a phrase in our own constitution, much less the USA, what would be the purpose of such “separation”? It’s not to protect mothers who want to abort children from Christians who want to pass bills to stop them, that’s for sure. It’s to allow religious freedoms. A bumper sticker that says, “I’m a Christian, and I vote!” might sum it up?

And just to help you out with another example of discrimination that I think highlights the point you were trying to make before Bill; drivers’ licences. The state discriminates against people under 16 and people who are blind. Go figure? Actually, most people would probably like to see the minimum age restriction increased. More discrimination!

Duane Proud

Ewan McDonald, Victoria.