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	<title>Comments on: Our Censors at Work?</title>
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	<description>Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day...</description>
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		<title>By: Spencer Gear</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/comment-page-1/#comment-58873</link>
		<dc:creator>Spencer Gear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/#comment-58873</guid>
		<description>Steve,

You stated: &quot;The real answer is that there is no demand for this book. Few people, whether believer or non-believer, have ever heard of Anthony Flew, let alone Roy Varghese who actually wrote the book.&quot;

I have not been an avid reader of Antony Flew over the years but when I took college or graduate school courses in Christian apologetics I was exposed to Flew&#039;s atheism.

There is not likely to be a demand for this book if its publisher, HarperOne, does not want to promote Flew and the book in Australia.  

I never knew of the works of Christian philosopher / apologist William Lane Craig until someone introduced him to me a few years ago.  Reading him is heavy going, but I&#039;ve learned so much about how to defend the faith by reading Craig.

Antony Flew&#039;s movement from avid atheism to theism is a monstrous leap.  If you read the interview between Flew and Gary Habermas that is available online, Flew states that he is open to theistic revelation.  Read the interview at: http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/flew-interview.pdf

Spencer Gear, Hervey Bay, Q.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>You stated: &#8220;The real answer is that there is no demand for this book. Few people, whether believer or non-believer, have ever heard of Anthony Flew, let alone Roy Varghese who actually wrote the book.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have not been an avid reader of Antony Flew over the years but when I took college or graduate school courses in Christian apologetics I was exposed to Flew&#8217;s atheism.</p>
<p>There is not likely to be a demand for this book if its publisher, HarperOne, does not want to promote Flew and the book in Australia.  </p>
<p>I never knew of the works of Christian philosopher / apologist William Lane Craig until someone introduced him to me a few years ago.  Reading him is heavy going, but I&#8217;ve learned so much about how to defend the faith by reading Craig.</p>
<p>Antony Flew&#8217;s movement from avid atheism to theism is a monstrous leap.  If you read the interview between Flew and Gary Habermas that is available online, Flew states that he is open to theistic revelation.  Read the interview at: <a href="http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/flew-interview.pdf" title="http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/flew-interview.pdf" class="autohyperlink" target="_blank">http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/flew-interview.pdf</a></p>
<p>Spencer Gear, Hervey Bay, Q.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Muehlenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/comment-page-1/#comment-58808</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Muehlenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 02:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/#comment-58808</guid>
		<description>Thanks Graeme

But with all due respect, you miss the point.  This issue is not so much how popular or famous the man may have been, but what his intellectual status and influence was. As a world class philosopher with dozens of books to his name, and the leading atheist for much of last century, he was and is a significant figure indeed.

Certainly in academic circles, and not just in philosophy departments, Flew would be a quite familiar name. Indeed, I recall reading about him in my pre-Christian days. That is why I said that at least university bookstores should be carrying his book. There surely would be more familiarity with Flew and his thinking there. But again, his defection from atheism has been downplayed big time by our intelligentsia. The question remains: why is this?

And the fact that you have not heard of him – and his defection – may in fact make my point. Why hasn’t this ideological bombshell been more widely reported down under? Why does it seem to be kept under wraps? As can be seen by the various atheist comments about this issue, all they can do is attack the person, instead of deal with his arguments. If that is the case, I can see why a mainly secular intelligentsia would just want to keep the whole story quiet.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Graeme</p>
<p>But with all due respect, you miss the point.  This issue is not so much how popular or famous the man may have been, but what his intellectual status and influence was. As a world class philosopher with dozens of books to his name, and the leading atheist for much of last century, he was and is a significant figure indeed.</p>
<p>Certainly in academic circles, and not just in philosophy departments, Flew would be a quite familiar name. Indeed, I recall reading about him in my pre-Christian days. That is why I said that at least university bookstores should be carrying his book. There surely would be more familiarity with Flew and his thinking there. But again, his defection from atheism has been downplayed big time by our intelligentsia. The question remains: why is this?</p>
<p>And the fact that you have not heard of him – and his defection – may in fact make my point. Why hasn’t this ideological bombshell been more widely reported down under? Why does it seem to be kept under wraps? As can be seen by the various atheist comments about this issue, all they can do is attack the person, instead of deal with his arguments. If that is the case, I can see why a mainly secular intelligentsia would just want to keep the whole story quiet.</p>
<p>Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</p>
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		<title>By: Graeme Cumming</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/comment-page-1/#comment-58795</link>
		<dc:creator>Graeme Cumming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/#comment-58795</guid>
		<description>Bill, I&#039;m on your side (member of biblical evangelical church, &amp; QLD Right to Life) but in fairness to Steve Angelino, I had never heard of Flew outside of your website, yet (almost) every Christian / atheist /  has heard of Billy Graham so his defection to the theistic camp is nowhere near as newsworthy as Graham&#039;s defection to the atheitic camp.
Graeme Cumming</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, I&#8217;m on your side (member of biblical evangelical church, &amp; QLD Right to Life) but in fairness to Steve Angelino, I had never heard of Flew outside of your website, yet (almost) every Christian / atheist /  has heard of Billy Graham so his defection to the theistic camp is nowhere near as newsworthy as Graham&#8217;s defection to the atheitic camp.<br />
Graeme Cumming</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Muehlenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/comment-page-1/#comment-58641</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Muehlenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 04:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/#comment-58641</guid>
		<description>Thanks Steve

But let me call your bluff here. If you take into account two considerations the picture becomes quite the contrary. Of these supposed 1000 Christian titles, I would wager that those that are actually reflecting Biblical Christianity are in fact simply numbered in the dozens at best. Most would be anything from New Age mumbo jumbo to liberal religion which has nothing to do with the biblical worldview. And narrowing the opposing camp to one specific word – atheism - is of course most disingenuous. If you took all the titles at Dymocks (or any other mainstream bookstore), you would find the secular, humanist, non-Christian titles comprise probably at least 95 per cent of the stock. So please spare us this meaningless nonsense.

As to Flew’s book, there is no demand for it in Australia for the simple reason that Australian book sellers, and the secular, liberal mainstream media and academia, have all done their best to not tell anyone of its existence. Demand can only proceed from information, and if our secular elites are doing their best to keep a theistic point of view from getting a fair hearing, then of course demand will be low to nonexistent.

And I really am getting tired of calling your bluff on this supposed non-importance of Flew’s defection. You underplay it and mock it because that is a lot easier than actually dealing with his arguments. But it is hugely significant, just as a Graham defection the other way would be. Stop pretending anyone here is claiming he has become a biblical Christian. No one has ever said he did. What he did is renounce the atheistic and materialistic worldview of which he was a world leader in promoting. That is an ideological and intellectual about face of tremendous importance.

And all you sore losers can do is deceitfully whine about whether he in fact even wrote the book. That shows how desperate you all are. You have not refuted one of his arguments, you simply attack his person. This is so typical of atheists and secularists who have no intellectual legs to stand on. No wonder they want to slam his defection so much. The higher the defection, the more mud your camp throws. It shows the absolute intellectual emptiness of atheism and naturalism.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Steve</p>
<p>But let me call your bluff here. If you take into account two considerations the picture becomes quite the contrary. Of these supposed 1000 Christian titles, I would wager that those that are actually reflecting Biblical Christianity are in fact simply numbered in the dozens at best. Most would be anything from New Age mumbo jumbo to liberal religion which has nothing to do with the biblical worldview. And narrowing the opposing camp to one specific word – atheism &#8211; is of course most disingenuous. If you took all the titles at Dymocks (or any other mainstream bookstore), you would find the secular, humanist, non-Christian titles comprise probably at least 95 per cent of the stock. So please spare us this meaningless nonsense.</p>
<p>As to Flew’s book, there is no demand for it in Australia for the simple reason that Australian book sellers, and the secular, liberal mainstream media and academia, have all done their best to not tell anyone of its existence. Demand can only proceed from information, and if our secular elites are doing their best to keep a theistic point of view from getting a fair hearing, then of course demand will be low to nonexistent.</p>
<p>And I really am getting tired of calling your bluff on this supposed non-importance of Flew’s defection. You underplay it and mock it because that is a lot easier than actually dealing with his arguments. But it is hugely significant, just as a Graham defection the other way would be. Stop pretending anyone here is claiming he has become a biblical Christian. No one has ever said he did. What he did is renounce the atheistic and materialistic worldview of which he was a world leader in promoting. That is an ideological and intellectual about face of tremendous importance.</p>
<p>And all you sore losers can do is deceitfully whine about whether he in fact even wrote the book. That shows how desperate you all are. You have not refuted one of his arguments, you simply attack his person. This is so typical of atheists and secularists who have no intellectual legs to stand on. No wonder they want to slam his defection so much. The higher the defection, the more mud your camp throws. It shows the absolute intellectual emptiness of atheism and naturalism.</p>
<p>Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Angelino, WA</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/comment-page-1/#comment-58634</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Angelino, WA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 03:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/#comment-58634</guid>
		<description>Bill,

I did a quick check of Dymocks Online and there are 1008 books found on a search for &quot;Christianity&quot; and 39 books on a search for &quot;Atheism&quot;. That doesn&#039;t suggest the kind of bias or censorship that you allege.

Bookstores depend for their success on the sale of books, and no bookstore is going to refuse to stock a book that will bring in sales, and books with a religious slant have a substantial market.

The real answer is that there is no demand for this book. Few people, whether believer or non-believer, have ever heard of Anthony Flew, let alone Roy Varghese who actually wrote the book. And, even if the book accurately represents Flew&#039;s views, it has no earth-shattering new insight to offer. It&#039;s just the same old &quot;God of the gaps&quot;, i.e. science can&#039;t explain everything, therefore there must be something else out there.

Flew&#039;s God is a long way removed from the Christian concept of a personal God, and it beats me why some Christians are so encouraged by him.

Steve Angelino, WA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill,</p>
<p>I did a quick check of Dymocks Online and there are 1008 books found on a search for &#8220;Christianity&#8221; and 39 books on a search for &#8220;Atheism&#8221;. That doesn&#8217;t suggest the kind of bias or censorship that you allege.</p>
<p>Bookstores depend for their success on the sale of books, and no bookstore is going to refuse to stock a book that will bring in sales, and books with a religious slant have a substantial market.</p>
<p>The real answer is that there is no demand for this book. Few people, whether believer or non-believer, have ever heard of Anthony Flew, let alone Roy Varghese who actually wrote the book. And, even if the book accurately represents Flew&#8217;s views, it has no earth-shattering new insight to offer. It&#8217;s just the same old &#8220;God of the gaps&#8221;, i.e. science can&#8217;t explain everything, therefore there must be something else out there.</p>
<p>Flew&#8217;s God is a long way removed from the Christian concept of a personal God, and it beats me why some Christians are so encouraged by him.</p>
<p>Steve Angelino, WA</p>
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		<title>By: ben green</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/comment-page-1/#comment-58612</link>
		<dc:creator>ben green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 23:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/#comment-58612</guid>
		<description>On occasion, I have kept my eye open for this book and as yet have not seen a copy. I even went to a Christian Book Shop yesterday and they did not have it. Maybe there is a business opportunity there for you Bill? 

I think it is stretching it to suggest there is some form of conspiracy unfolding.

Ben Green</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On occasion, I have kept my eye open for this book and as yet have not seen a copy. I even went to a Christian Book Shop yesterday and they did not have it. Maybe there is a business opportunity there for you Bill? </p>
<p>I think it is stretching it to suggest there is some form of conspiracy unfolding.</p>
<p>Ben Green</p>
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		<title>By: George Kokonis</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/comment-page-1/#comment-58415</link>
		<dc:creator>George Kokonis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 23:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/#comment-58415</guid>
		<description>Great article Bill. It&#039;s sometimes hard to believe the lengths people will go to, to suppress the truth about God. If God is a construct of humans as the secular-humanists argue, why the need to hide books such as this?  What are they afraid of? I suspect we all know the answer!

George Kokonis</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article Bill. It&#8217;s sometimes hard to believe the lengths people will go to, to suppress the truth about God. If God is a construct of humans as the secular-humanists argue, why the need to hide books such as this?  What are they afraid of? I suspect we all know the answer!</p>
<p>George Kokonis</p>
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		<title>By: Spencer Gear</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/comment-page-1/#comment-58303</link>
		<dc:creator>Spencer Gear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 10:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/#comment-58303</guid>
		<description>Bill, 

I know that Australia has a rather small book market potential when compared with UK, Europe, USA, but when the actual publisher of the book states what you indicated, it seems to point to something else that is going on here.  

I thought that Harper One was in the business of making money from the sale of books anywhere in the world, and  without promotion their own books will obviously flop.  

Yet, Harper One&#039;s subsidiary, Harper San Francisco, is very happy to release every copy of heretical historical Jesus material by John Dominic Crossan.

Have you contacted Antony Flew to alert him to this anomaly?  

Spencer Gear, Hervey Bay, Qld.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, </p>
<p>I know that Australia has a rather small book market potential when compared with UK, Europe, USA, but when the actual publisher of the book states what you indicated, it seems to point to something else that is going on here.  </p>
<p>I thought that Harper One was in the business of making money from the sale of books anywhere in the world, and  without promotion their own books will obviously flop.  </p>
<p>Yet, Harper One&#8217;s subsidiary, Harper San Francisco, is very happy to release every copy of heretical historical Jesus material by John Dominic Crossan.</p>
<p>Have you contacted Antony Flew to alert him to this anomaly?  </p>
<p>Spencer Gear, Hervey Bay, Qld.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Muehlenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/comment-page-1/#comment-58115</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Muehlenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 12:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/#comment-58115</guid>
		<description>Thanks Duane

Yes the whales are getting a pretty good run lately. I somehow don’t expect to see similar coverage at the abortion mills any time soon.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Duane</p>
<p>Yes the whales are getting a pretty good run lately. I somehow don’t expect to see similar coverage at the abortion mills any time soon.</p>
<p>Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</p>
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		<title>By: Duane Proud</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/comment-page-1/#comment-58112</link>
		<dc:creator>Duane Proud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 12:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/07/our-censors-at-work/#comment-58112</guid>
		<description>Why am I not surprised by your account Bill. Thanks for sharing. I actually gave up on those book stores a long time ago, unless I&#039;m buying sci-fantasy. Glad to see Koorong are stocking the books we&#039;d expect them to though. I mean, if we can&#039;t expect Koorong to stock it, then who else will?

(An aside; I&#039;m sure you noticed that it was lights-camera-action all over the whaling issue again today?)

Duane Proud</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why am I not surprised by your account Bill. Thanks for sharing. I actually gave up on those book stores a long time ago, unless I&#8217;m buying sci-fantasy. Glad to see Koorong are stocking the books we&#8217;d expect them to though. I mean, if we can&#8217;t expect Koorong to stock it, then who else will?</p>
<p>(An aside; I&#8217;m sure you noticed that it was lights-camera-action all over the whaling issue again today?)</p>
<p>Duane Proud</p>
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