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	<title>Comments on: Danger! Danger! They Are Taking Over!</title>
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	<description>Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day...</description>
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		<title>By: Bill Muehlenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/comment-page-1/#comment-36452</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Muehlenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/#comment-36452</guid>
		<description>Thanks Spencer

Your comments are always welcome here. But the topic (and therefore appropriate emphasis) of course was the Today Tonight beat-up and anti-Christian bigotry, not whether it is appropriate for believers to be on Idol. As it went further in that direction, the more I started to cringe, because A) it was off topic; and B), if the litmus test of Biblical spirituality and holiness is to stay clear of a song contest, even if it has the word ‘idol’ in it, then I think we are starting to lose the plot. 

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Spencer</p>
<p>Your comments are always welcome here. But the topic (and therefore appropriate emphasis) of course was the Today Tonight beat-up and anti-Christian bigotry, not whether it is appropriate for believers to be on Idol. As it went further in that direction, the more I started to cringe, because A) it was off topic; and B), if the litmus test of Biblical spirituality and holiness is to stay clear of a song contest, even if it has the word ‘idol’ in it, then I think we are starting to lose the plot. </p>
<p>Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</p>
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		<title>By: Spencer Gear</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/comment-page-1/#comment-36451</link>
		<dc:creator>Spencer Gear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/#comment-36451</guid>
		<description>Yes, Glenn, I was rather myopic, but that was the topic that was addressed, &quot;Australian Idol.&quot;  I was simply sticking with the topic but it wasn&#039;t the emphasis Bill wanted.

Spencer, Hervey Bay, Qld.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Glenn, I was rather myopic, but that was the topic that was addressed, &#8220;Australian Idol.&#8221;  I was simply sticking with the topic but it wasn&#8217;t the emphasis Bill wanted.</p>
<p>Spencer, Hervey Bay, Qld.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Muehlenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/comment-page-1/#comment-36422</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Muehlenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 06:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/#comment-36422</guid>
		<description>Thanks Glenn

I guess the problem I had with some comments here (about not going on Idol, or not even liking the term ‘Idol’ in the name) was that it actually undid what some of these commentators were trying to say. Yes idolatry is a real concern which the Bible speaks much about. But we almost trivialise and minimise the biblical concern when we pick on one show – just a singing contest – or even the term in the name of a show. Idolatry in the biblical sense is much greater and much more insidious. It affects everything, and can be found everywhere. It can even be found in churches and in good Christian things. Thus Guinness can speak of the idolatry of the church growth movement, for example. And a believer – even I – can make an idol of trying to win a debate with commentators on a blog site!

So idolatry in one sense is a whole lot bigger and more deceptive than we sometimes imagine. To single out as an example of idolatry a singing contest show and bewail something like a phrase on TV program is perhaps to miss the real point about the biblical warnings against idolatry. The whole fallen world in one sense is an idol. Every time we are out of the will of God, even for “lesser sins” such as gossip, intellectual pride, even spiritual pride, we are partaking in the fallen idolatrous world system.

Thus I became a bit impatient with where this discussion had been heading, and curtailed it. But my impatience may also be idolatrous! So we all need to be careful here. We sometimes major on minors, and minor on majors. Seeing the trees, we perhaps lose sight of the forest.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Glenn</p>
<p>I guess the problem I had with some comments here (about not going on Idol, or not even liking the term ‘Idol’ in the name) was that it actually undid what some of these commentators were trying to say. Yes idolatry is a real concern which the Bible speaks much about. But we almost trivialise and minimise the biblical concern when we pick on one show – just a singing contest – or even the term in the name of a show. Idolatry in the biblical sense is much greater and much more insidious. It affects everything, and can be found everywhere. It can even be found in churches and in good Christian things. Thus Guinness can speak of the idolatry of the church growth movement, for example. And a believer – even I – can make an idol of trying to win a debate with commentators on a blog site!</p>
<p>So idolatry in one sense is a whole lot bigger and more deceptive than we sometimes imagine. To single out as an example of idolatry a singing contest show and bewail something like a phrase on TV program is perhaps to miss the real point about the biblical warnings against idolatry. The whole fallen world in one sense is an idol. Every time we are out of the will of God, even for “lesser sins” such as gossip, intellectual pride, even spiritual pride, we are partaking in the fallen idolatrous world system.</p>
<p>Thus I became a bit impatient with where this discussion had been heading, and curtailed it. But my impatience may also be idolatrous! So we all need to be careful here. We sometimes major on minors, and minor on majors. Seeing the trees, we perhaps lose sight of the forest.</p>
<p>Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn Timmins</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/comment-page-1/#comment-36419</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Timmins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 05:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/#comment-36419</guid>
		<description>I read with interest Spencer Gear’s comment that “the nature of Australian Idol is fostering idolatry” and felt compelled to comment. Unless I’m not mistaken, Spencer, don’t we live, unfortunately I must say, in a time when perhaps half of the world’s six billion people are concerned or connected with the affairs, interests or pleasures of the world? Don’t single out one television program for special attention. Don’t millions of people each year just in Australia alone blindly adore reality television programs like “Big Brother” and its spin-offs, where sex, nudity, infidelity, course language, late-night gossiping, back-stabbing and other adult themes are the norm, or “teenage soapies” like “Neighbours” and “Home And Away”, are not much better? Such programs have the potential to turn its participants into national celebrities – Australian Idol included.

Then what about such overseas TV reality progams as “Temptation Island” – where several couples agreed to live with a group of singles of the opposite sex, in order to test the strength of their relationships; “Boy Meets Boy” – where a gay man named James Getzlaff selects another man to date from among a group of 15 potential suiters, known as &quot;mates”; “There’s Something About Miriam” - featuring six men wooing 21 year-old Mexican model Miriam without revealing that she was a transsexual until the final episode; and “Can You Be A Porn Star” - the title speaks for itself – two of which, I know at least have been aired in Australia? … and the list goes on and on! Comparing “Australian Idol” to “Big Brother” and these fore mentioned shows is like comparing the morals of Jesus to Adolph Hitler.

Then there are sportspeople, models, actors and actresses, singers and musicians on the national and international stage. Spencer, aren’t they not also our idols – to the young and old alike – yesterday, today and tomorrow? Reality check – welcome to the 21st century!

Glenn Timmins, Vic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read with interest Spencer Gear’s comment that “the nature of Australian Idol is fostering idolatry” and felt compelled to comment. Unless I’m not mistaken, Spencer, don’t we live, unfortunately I must say, in a time when perhaps half of the world’s six billion people are concerned or connected with the affairs, interests or pleasures of the world? Don’t single out one television program for special attention. Don’t millions of people each year just in Australia alone blindly adore reality television programs like “Big Brother” and its spin-offs, where sex, nudity, infidelity, course language, late-night gossiping, back-stabbing and other adult themes are the norm, or “teenage soapies” like “Neighbours” and “Home And Away”, are not much better? Such programs have the potential to turn its participants into national celebrities – Australian Idol included.</p>
<p>Then what about such overseas TV reality progams as “Temptation Island” – where several couples agreed to live with a group of singles of the opposite sex, in order to test the strength of their relationships; “Boy Meets Boy” – where a gay man named James Getzlaff selects another man to date from among a group of 15 potential suiters, known as &#8220;mates”; “There’s Something About Miriam” &#8211; featuring six men wooing 21 year-old Mexican model Miriam without revealing that she was a transsexual until the final episode; and “Can You Be A Porn Star” &#8211; the title speaks for itself – two of which, I know at least have been aired in Australia? … and the list goes on and on! Comparing “Australian Idol” to “Big Brother” and these fore mentioned shows is like comparing the morals of Jesus to Adolph Hitler.</p>
<p>Then there are sportspeople, models, actors and actresses, singers and musicians on the national and international stage. Spencer, aren’t they not also our idols – to the young and old alike – yesterday, today and tomorrow? Reality check – welcome to the 21st century!</p>
<p>Glenn Timmins, Vic.</p>
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		<title>By: Rae Wallace Devonport 7310</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/comment-page-1/#comment-35297</link>
		<dc:creator>Rae Wallace Devonport 7310</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/#comment-35297</guid>
		<description>Hi Bill, I just read your article and I could not stop laughing, it really tickled my funny bone that &quot;Today Tonight&quot; could run such a funny story on the Idol finalists. They need to get a life at Channel 7, or as you say they have run out of material to express to the viewers. I love Australian Idol and I am very impressed with the God-given talent this year. Keep up the good work our young Christian Ambassadors.
And hi Spencer and Robert. I have just read what you have both written and I get the feeling that you both have a little bit of judgement going on here. I have had a lot to do with AOG Churches and I know for a fact that our youth are taught to put our “Sovergein Lord” first and foremost in every part of their lives. Our youth are doing a wonderful work reaching out to our young people in the world and we must encourage this and not be such fuddy duddy’s in our thoughts and beliefs where our young ambassadors for Christ are concerned. We have a youth inspired band at our church, but there is always room for us oldie’s to be part of the praise and worship. A very interesting debate people.
Rae Wallace, Devonport</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bill, I just read your article and I could not stop laughing, it really tickled my funny bone that &#8220;Today Tonight&#8221; could run such a funny story on the Idol finalists. They need to get a life at Channel 7, or as you say they have run out of material to express to the viewers. I love Australian Idol and I am very impressed with the God-given talent this year. Keep up the good work our young Christian Ambassadors.<br />
And hi Spencer and Robert. I have just read what you have both written and I get the feeling that you both have a little bit of judgement going on here. I have had a lot to do with AOG Churches and I know for a fact that our youth are taught to put our “Sovergein Lord” first and foremost in every part of their lives. Our youth are doing a wonderful work reaching out to our young people in the world and we must encourage this and not be such fuddy duddy’s in our thoughts and beliefs where our young ambassadors for Christ are concerned. We have a youth inspired band at our church, but there is always room for us oldie’s to be part of the praise and worship. A very interesting debate people.<br />
Rae Wallace, Devonport</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Sturla</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/comment-page-1/#comment-34684</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Sturla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 22:55:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/#comment-34684</guid>
		<description>Yes Pat, I fully agree  with you, these people are gutless and pathetic. 
They attack Christians with immunity because there is a lack of response on our part, little to nil protection of our rights by the government and the fact is that it is intellectually popular.
These people should well remember that you can only push a person so far before the will turn and take action.
Christians have been taught to &quot;turn the other cheek&quot; and to &quot;love your enemies&quot; which has actually developed a victims mentality in us.
Many Christians have fallen under the belief that persecution is a sign of righteousness.
Jesus was not a victim.
When Jesus saw persecution He took action.
Jim Sturla</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Pat, I fully agree  with you, these people are gutless and pathetic.<br />
They attack Christians with immunity because there is a lack of response on our part, little to nil protection of our rights by the government and the fact is that it is intellectually popular.<br />
These people should well remember that you can only push a person so far before the will turn and take action.<br />
Christians have been taught to &#8220;turn the other cheek&#8221; and to &#8220;love your enemies&#8221; which has actually developed a victims mentality in us.<br />
Many Christians have fallen under the belief that persecution is a sign of righteousness.<br />
Jesus was not a victim.<br />
When Jesus saw persecution He took action.<br />
Jim Sturla</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Abrahams</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/comment-page-1/#comment-34550</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat Abrahams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 10:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/#comment-34550</guid>
		<description>Really I am not sure whether to bristle or feel flattered as a practising christian that we can strike such terror in Chalnnel 7 simply becuase we are united in a common purpose of worshiping a common god. These people are gutless and pathetic really. 

Pat Abrahams</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really I am not sure whether to bristle or feel flattered as a practising christian that we can strike such terror in Chalnnel 7 simply becuase we are united in a common purpose of worshiping a common god. These people are gutless and pathetic really. </p>
<p>Pat Abrahams</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Sturla</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/comment-page-1/#comment-33969</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Sturla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2007 00:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/#comment-33969</guid>
		<description>Hi Robert
I think we are getting a little bit away from the topic but many of the views about modern music concern me as I have had bad experiences with musically biased Christians in the past.
It would do well for us to realise that many of the songs we so reverently sing in churches today were actually the upbeat modern songs of the past.
In fact one of our favourite all time Christmas carols was actually a German bar room tune.
I have listened to the words of modern songs and to be quite honest I have found them to be more in line with the Bible than the older songs.
Worship to me is one of the heart, it is my expression of love to God, if God insisted on form shouldn&#039;t we be singing in Hebrew not English.
We are called to be &quot;the head, not the tail&quot;, this means we are to be leaders not followers.
You lead from the front, God knows the motivation behind these Idol peformers and He will judge.
I believe it is a great witness that such a nationwide show has so many Christian contestants.
The message that they present is relevant to today.
We are told to be in the world but not of the world and the message that these young people put forward is that Christianity is modern and is relevant to today.
Jim Sturla</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Robert<br />
I think we are getting a little bit away from the topic but many of the views about modern music concern me as I have had bad experiences with musically biased Christians in the past.<br />
It would do well for us to realise that many of the songs we so reverently sing in churches today were actually the upbeat modern songs of the past.<br />
In fact one of our favourite all time Christmas carols was actually a German bar room tune.<br />
I have listened to the words of modern songs and to be quite honest I have found them to be more in line with the Bible than the older songs.<br />
Worship to me is one of the heart, it is my expression of love to God, if God insisted on form shouldn&#8217;t we be singing in Hebrew not English.<br />
We are called to be &#8220;the head, not the tail&#8221;, this means we are to be leaders not followers.<br />
You lead from the front, God knows the motivation behind these Idol peformers and He will judge.<br />
I believe it is a great witness that such a nationwide show has so many Christian contestants.<br />
The message that they present is relevant to today.<br />
We are told to be in the world but not of the world and the message that these young people put forward is that Christianity is modern and is relevant to today.<br />
Jim Sturla</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Rice</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/comment-page-1/#comment-33934</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Rice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 22:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/#comment-33934</guid>
		<description>Prettywell everething has been said but perhaps we can take comfort in the last count of Christians in the world (per the Encyclopaedia Britannica Yearbook 2007) with a (mid-2006) total of 2,173,183,400, and increasing. In 1900 there were 558,056,300. It seems that the producers of these shows are running out of ideas and Christians are fair game. Maybe because of the poor (and getting poorer) quality of many TV presentations, it might be time to quit and give radio a go! And my wife will breath easy when I stop shouting at the box.
Peter Rice</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prettywell everething has been said but perhaps we can take comfort in the last count of Christians in the world (per the Encyclopaedia Britannica Yearbook 2007) with a (mid-2006) total of 2,173,183,400, and increasing. In 1900 there were 558,056,300. It seems that the producers of these shows are running out of ideas and Christians are fair game. Maybe because of the poor (and getting poorer) quality of many TV presentations, it might be time to quit and give radio a go! And my wife will breath easy when I stop shouting at the box.<br />
Peter Rice</p>
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		<title>By: Luke Beattie</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/comment-page-1/#comment-33855</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke Beattie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 14:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/10/03/danger-danger-they-are-taking-over/#comment-33855</guid>
		<description>First those dastardly Christians infiltrate Idol, and what next? Parliament House?

But seriously, this rubbish journalism just reinforces what we already understand about the Christophobic sway of the popular media. It&#039;s unfortunate that so many people accept this trash uncritically, and allow it to shape their worldview. 

Since when was it a negative and scandalous thing to be a Christian in this nation?

Luke Beattie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First those dastardly Christians infiltrate Idol, and what next? Parliament House?</p>
<p>But seriously, this rubbish journalism just reinforces what we already understand about the Christophobic sway of the popular media. It&#8217;s unfortunate that so many people accept this trash uncritically, and allow it to shape their worldview. </p>
<p>Since when was it a negative and scandalous thing to be a Christian in this nation?</p>
<p>Luke Beattie</p>
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