Comments on: On Being a Prophet http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/ Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day... Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:50:32 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: david skinner http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/comment-page-1/#comment-24032 david skinner Fri, 27 Jul 2007 05:29:41 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/#comment-24032 I agree with Dee Graf's point about an unwillingness for Christians to speak up. Imagine that we are talking on the deck of a seemingly unsinkable, luxury, ocean liner. We are enjoying a cruise and passing the time in endless diversions and distractions but I am trying to persuade you to leave the ship in order to join a small raft that is bobbing about on the waves , a little distance away. Naturally the idea does not grab you. Why on earth would anyone want to exchange the comfort and security of an unsinkable, luxury liner for something seemingly so frail? The reason is that I have facts that inform me of disturbing truths about where we are now , where we are headed and who the captain is; all of which lead me to believe that the ship – like the Titanic – is on course for disaster. But for a mixture of reasons, I remain silent. Perhaps I am indifferent to your fate; or I might be enjoying the sun and sea too much to take seriously these fancies I harbour at the back of my mind - after all, a healthy dose of real life at sea is enough to show that, whatever odd ideas I might have had when shut up alone in my cabin with my books, they could not possibly be true? I might also be reluctant to make myself vulnerable by revealing extremely personal thoughts: when we are partying and having a ball we want to keep conversation light. There again, I might be fearful of offending you and of the scorn or even rage that my message might produce - but for a host of reasons I remain silent. The fact remains, however, that if my inside information were true then the little raft would take on a dramatically, different significance. Far from being an un-attractive proposition, reaching the safety of the raft, from that moment, would become our sole aim in life. Or would it? There are those who are indifferent to the peril they are in. Apparently, even after the Titanic had struck the iceberg, passengers were found playing with the snow that was cascading onto the decks - oblivious of the danger they were in. Pascal, the 17th century mathematician, said that the same person who spends so many days and nights in fury and despair at losing some office or at some imaginary affront to their pride is the very one who knows that they are going to lose everything through death but feels neither anxiety or emotion. Such blindness is incomprehensible apart from a supernatural power. That same power would also attempt to silence me. David Skinner, UK I agree with Dee Graf’s point about an unwillingness for Christians to speak up. Imagine that we are talking on the deck of a seemingly unsinkable, luxury, ocean liner. We are enjoying a cruise and passing the time in endless diversions and distractions but I am trying to persuade you to leave the ship in order to join a small raft that is bobbing about on the waves , a little distance away. Naturally the idea does not grab you. Why on earth would anyone want to exchange the comfort and security of an unsinkable, luxury liner for something seemingly so frail? The reason is that I have facts that inform me of disturbing truths about where we are now , where we are headed and who the captain is; all of which lead me to believe that the ship – like the Titanic – is on course for disaster. But for a mixture of reasons, I remain silent. Perhaps I am indifferent to your fate; or I might be enjoying the sun and sea too much to take seriously these fancies I harbour at the back of my mind – after all, a healthy dose of real life at sea is enough to show that, whatever odd ideas I might have had when shut up alone in my cabin with my books, they could not possibly be true? I might also be reluctant to make myself vulnerable by revealing extremely personal thoughts: when we are partying and having a ball we want to keep conversation light. There again, I might be fearful of offending you and of the scorn or even rage that my message might produce – but for a host of reasons I remain silent. The fact remains, however, that if my inside information were true then the little raft would take on a dramatically, different significance. Far from being an un-attractive proposition, reaching the safety of the raft, from that moment, would become our sole aim in life. Or would it? There are those who are indifferent to the peril they are in. Apparently, even after the Titanic had struck the iceberg, passengers were found playing with the snow that was cascading onto the decks – oblivious of the danger they were in. Pascal, the 17th century mathematician, said that the same person who spends so many days and nights in fury and despair at losing some office or at some imaginary affront to their pride is the very one who knows that they are going to lose everything through death but feels neither anxiety or emotion. Such blindness is incomprehensible apart from a supernatural power. That same power would also attempt to silence me.
David Skinner, UK

]]> By: Frank BELLET http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/comment-page-1/#comment-23943 Frank BELLET Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:21:04 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/#comment-23943 Hi Bill I was very interested in what Donna Murphy had to say about the amount of witchcraft you come across in society today. What she said was very true. Star signs, much discussed is one example of the codswallop you hear in conversations today. These codswallopers talk as if everybody born on a certain date span has much the same character traits. Some years ago, when a certain date was on the horizon, I wrote in the Australian that it happened to be the birthdate of Tasmaniam serial killer, Martin Bryant. And that I hoped we'd be spared an analysis, with the ridiculous claim that since he was born "under" a so-called star sign, that it contributed to his behaviour. I wrote that born on the same date were composers Tchaikovsky and Brahms, actor Gary Cooper, actress Anne Baxter, singers Janis Ian, Teresa Brewer (1950's hit singer) Eva Peron, Josef Tito, communist dictator and so on. Are all these people of the same type of character? I concluded "Why am I interested in this bit of rivetting information? Well I was born on that date too and I'm not a scrap like any of those people". Frank Bellet, Petrie, Queensland Hi Bill
I was very interested in what Donna Murphy had to say about the amount of witchcraft you come across in society today. What she said was very true. Star signs, much discussed is one example of the codswallop you hear in conversations today. These codswallopers talk as if everybody born on a certain date span has much the same character traits. Some years ago, when a certain date was on the horizon, I wrote in the Australian that it happened to be the birthdate of Tasmaniam serial killer, Martin Bryant. And that I hoped we’d be spared an analysis, with the ridiculous claim that since he was born “under” a so-called star sign, that it contributed to his behaviour.
I wrote that born on the same date were composers Tchaikovsky and Brahms, actor Gary Cooper, actress Anne Baxter, singers Janis Ian, Teresa Brewer (1950′s hit singer) Eva Peron, Josef Tito, communist dictator and so on. Are all these people of the same type of character?
I concluded “Why am I interested in this bit of rivetting information? Well I was born on that date too and I’m not a scrap like any of those people”.
Frank Bellet, Petrie, Queensland

]]> By: david skinner http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/comment-page-1/#comment-23884 david skinner Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:08:51 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/#comment-23884 The voice of C.S. Lewis speaks more clearly as each day darkens. Speaking of the gospel he says: “…. It does not begin in comfort; it begins in dismay…and it is no use at all trying to go on to that comfort without first going through that dismay. In religion, as in war and everything else, comfort is the one thing you cannot get by looking for it. If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end. If you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth - only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin with and, in the end, despair.” David Skinner, UK The voice of C.S. Lewis speaks more clearly as each day darkens. Speaking of the gospel he says:
“…. It does not begin in comfort; it begins in dismay…and it is no use at all trying to go on to that comfort without first going through that dismay. In religion, as in war and everything else, comfort is the one thing you cannot get by looking for it. If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end. If you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth – only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin with and, in the end, despair.”
David Skinner, UK

]]> By: Stan Fishley http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/comment-page-1/#comment-23875 Stan Fishley Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:29:03 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/#comment-23875 Thanks Bill. An example is the way that the U.C.A. has persecuted prophetic clergy. (Rev) Stan Fishley, U.C.A.Retired Thanks Bill. An example is the way that the U.C.A. has persecuted prophetic clergy.
(Rev) Stan Fishley, U.C.A.Retired

]]> By: Ian Brearley http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/comment-page-1/#comment-23832 Ian Brearley Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:45:05 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/#comment-23832 Bill, you are dead right about the sugar-coated messages of today. In Revelation we read that "they overcame by 3 things 1. The blood of the Lamb 2. The word of their testimony 3. They loved not their own lives, even unto death". In 32 years of being a Christian, of the times in church that I have heard this scripture used, at least 60% of the time the third one is left out. This tells me something. It's a bit like the inherent weakness of democracy - you make a gutsy, long-term benefit decision, and it's likely you will be voted out next election. Ian Brearley Bill, you are dead right about the sugar-coated messages of today. In Revelation we read that “they overcame by 3 things 1. The blood of the Lamb 2. The word of their testimony 3. They loved not their own lives, even unto death”. In 32 years of being a Christian, of the times in church that I have heard this scripture used, at least 60% of the time the third one is left out. This tells me something. It’s a bit like the inherent weakness of democracy – you make a gutsy, long-term benefit decision, and it’s likely you will be voted out next election.
Ian Brearley

]]> By: Dee Graf http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/comment-page-1/#comment-23785 Dee Graf Tue, 24 Jul 2007 07:27:10 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/#comment-23785 Wow...Reading this was like a breath of fresh air. I for one long to see the prophetic voice in the church and the world! On Saturday when I walked into Borders and saw the Harry Potter display and the (Christian-owned) Gloria Jeans cafe in the same place defiled with spiders webs and the staff wearing witches hats, I felt so deeply sickened that I put down the books I had come to buy and left. The thought occurred to me that there are very few Christian voices condemning these things in the church and as a matter of fact, many Christians I'm sure have no idea that HP is witchcraft being glorified to ridiculous heights in our once Christian culture. This is, of course, just one phenomenon. How is the church, the vast numbers of 'sheep' going to be able to discern unless those with the gifts of discernment speak out and guide them? But I've noticed that when in a group of chatting church friends, you start talking about abortion or same-sex marriage or other 'controversial' topics, a silence falls on the group. It's only OK to talk about movies we've seen, work or some other mundane topic. How are we different to the world? We as Christians hate to disagree with each other, so we just avoid the topics that we need most to support each other on. If we don't support each other in what is an increasingly difficult stance to take in a darkening world, who will support and encourage us? Is it better to displease God and upset others or offend God and allow the church to go to Hell in a handbasket? Bill, thank you so much for writing this article! Dee Graf Wow…Reading this was like a breath of fresh air. I for one long to see the prophetic voice in the church and the world! On Saturday when I walked into Borders and saw the Harry Potter display and the (Christian-owned) Gloria Jeans cafe in the same place defiled with spiders webs and the staff wearing witches hats, I felt so deeply sickened that I put down the books I had come to buy and left. The thought occurred to me that there are very few Christian voices condemning these things in the church and as a matter of fact, many Christians I’m sure have no idea that HP is witchcraft being glorified to ridiculous heights in our once Christian culture. This is, of course, just one phenomenon. How is the church, the vast numbers of ‘sheep’ going to be able to discern unless those with the gifts of discernment speak out and guide them? But I’ve noticed that when in a group of chatting church friends, you start talking about abortion or same-sex marriage or other ‘controversial’ topics, a silence falls on the group. It’s only OK to talk about movies we’ve seen, work or some other mundane topic. How are we different to the world? We as Christians hate to disagree with each other, so we just avoid the topics that we need most to support each other on. If we don’t support each other in what is an increasingly difficult stance to take in a darkening world, who will support and encourage us? Is it better to displease God and upset others or offend God and allow the church to go to Hell in a handbasket?
Bill, thank you so much for writing this article!
Dee Graf

]]> By: Barry Fleming http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/comment-page-1/#comment-23784 Barry Fleming Tue, 24 Jul 2007 07:24:40 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/#comment-23784 Your comment about "prophets being not well received.." has certainly been evident even amongs charismatic and Pentecostal churches. Though the role of a congregational prophet is rarely seen today within Western Pentecostal churches (at least during corporate meetings,) those who have experienced the charismatic renewal of the 70's and 80's can well testify to the silencing of many prophets. Putting aside the ocassional false prophet, who are generally easy to spot - it seems that even within the body itself speaking out with either a prophetic voice or even with natural insight can too often be a perilous experience. Barry Fleming Your comment about “prophets being not well received..” has certainly been evident even amongs charismatic and Pentecostal churches. Though the role of a congregational prophet is rarely seen today within Western Pentecostal churches (at least during corporate meetings,) those who have experienced the charismatic renewal of the 70′s and 80′s can well testify to the silencing of many prophets. Putting aside the ocassional false prophet, who are generally easy to spot – it seems that even within the body itself speaking out with either a prophetic voice or even with natural insight can too often be a perilous experience.
Barry Fleming

]]> By: Donna Murphy http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/comment-page-1/#comment-23771 Donna Murphy Tue, 24 Jul 2007 04:39:51 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/#comment-23771 The prophetic roles of 'speaking of the situation of the day' and fore-telling the future, can often appear as two separate functions. However, doesn't the latter function follows on from the former? A prophet reads the signs of the times and warns of the ramifications of what they see. E.g. the path you people are taking now is ungodly and wrong. If you don't turn back ... these will be the ramifications as a result of your following this path. God gives them His insight to 'see the future' that will result from the 'now'. In today's world that is so steeped in witchcraft, I have come across people who sometimes confuse 'fortune tellers' as being somehow prophetic, when in fact fortune-telling has its origins in the occult, and is never designed to turn people away from sin and towards Jesus. In other words, the purpose of fortune-telling is NEVER for the salvation of souls. With prophecy, however, the telling of future events is to draw people away from the wrong they are doing now, and warn them of what will happen if they don't ....ultimately for the salvation of souls. Donna Murphy The prophetic roles of ‘speaking of the situation of the day’ and fore-telling the future, can often appear as two separate functions. However, doesn’t the latter function follows on from the former? A prophet reads the signs of the times and warns of the ramifications of what they see. E.g. the path you people are taking now is ungodly and wrong. If you don’t turn back … these will be the ramifications as a result of your following this path. God gives them His insight to ‘see the future’ that will result from the ‘now’.
In today’s world that is so steeped in witchcraft, I have come across people who sometimes confuse ‘fortune tellers’ as being somehow prophetic, when in fact fortune-telling has its origins in the occult, and is never designed to turn people away from sin and towards Jesus. In other words, the purpose of fortune-telling is NEVER for the salvation of souls.
With prophecy, however, the telling of future events is to draw people away from the wrong they are doing now, and warn them of what will happen if they don’t ….ultimately for the salvation of souls.
Donna Murphy

]]> By: Graeme Cumming http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/comment-page-1/#comment-23753 Graeme Cumming Tue, 24 Jul 2007 00:33:35 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/#comment-23753 M.E. Huffmaster stated "John Knox was one, who prophesied that his false accuser would die at the very spot from which he viewed Knox’s execution very soon. Two months later that prophecy did in fact come to pass." The small snippets of John Knox's life that I have read about have fascinated me. Do you have a reference for this event? Graeme Cumming M.E. Huffmaster stated “John Knox was one, who prophesied that his false accuser would die at the very spot from which he viewed Knox’s execution very soon. Two months later that prophecy did in fact come to pass.” The small snippets of John Knox’s life that I have read about have fascinated me. Do you have a reference for this event?
Graeme Cumming

]]> By: Matthew Mulvaney http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/comment-page-1/#comment-23610 Matthew Mulvaney Sun, 22 Jul 2007 08:14:24 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/07/21/on-being-a-prophet/#comment-23610 Thanks Bill, This is a challenging message. It is worth noting that telling the "hard and unpopular themes" can lead to good, as some people are convicted of sin and repent. It is worth reading Ezekiel, Chapter 3 starting at verse 16. It shows how important prophecy is. Matthew Mulvaney Thanks Bill,

This is a challenging message.

It is worth noting that telling the “hard and unpopular themes” can lead to good, as some people are convicted of sin and repent.

It is worth reading Ezekiel, Chapter 3 starting at verse 16. It shows how important prophecy is.

Matthew Mulvaney

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