Comments on: Sense on the Census http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/ Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day... Wed, 08 Feb 2012 10:57:32 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Michael Hutton, Ariah Park http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/comment-page-1/#comment-132434 Michael Hutton, Ariah Park Wed, 01 Apr 2009 05:05:02 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/#comment-132434 I would love to see someone do some hair-parting analysis on some of those figures. For example, I think there are two trends at work amongst NSW Anglicans. 1. Decline in the older, once dominant group. 2. Growth amongst the younger group (based around Sydney?) Is there any anlysis that could prove or disprove this idea? Which trend is going to prove stronger? Should we beat ourselves up about church growth not keeping up with population growth when all our population growth is from immigration? (Birth rate is half death rate) Sure it means there's mission work to be done, but it's not the death knell many make it out to be. Is it possible to do a rigourous analysis of church growth based on some kind of measure of liberal/conservative? (within denominations as well as across) What would this reveal? I agree, things aren't as bad as many (inside and outside the church) want to suggest. Thanks for your interesting articles Bill. Michael Hutton, Ariah Park I would love to see someone do some hair-parting analysis on some of those figures.

For example, I think there are two trends at work amongst NSW Anglicans. 1. Decline in the older, once dominant group. 2. Growth amongst the younger group (based around Sydney?) Is there any anlysis that could prove or disprove this idea? Which trend is going to prove stronger?

Should we beat ourselves up about church growth not keeping up with population growth when all our population growth is from immigration? (Birth rate is half death rate) Sure it means there’s mission work to be done, but it’s not the death knell many make it out to be.

Is it possible to do a rigourous analysis of church growth based on some kind of measure of liberal/conservative? (within denominations as well as across) What would this reveal?

I agree, things aren’t as bad as many (inside and outside the church) want to suggest.

Thanks for your interesting articles Bill.

Michael Hutton, Ariah Park

]]> By: Ian Brearley http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/comment-page-1/#comment-21900 Ian Brearley Sat, 30 Jun 2007 22:41:24 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/#comment-21900 To Ewan McDonald - we have a dear Christian friend who spent some 2 years in PNG where the average church attendance is 95% each Sunday. She said that despite this, that the place is actually going backwards spiritually. Shows how important it is for us to be doers of The Word rather than just hearers only. Ian Brearley To Ewan McDonald – we have a dear Christian friend who spent some 2 years in PNG where the average church attendance is 95% each Sunday. She said that despite this, that the place is actually going backwards spiritually. Shows how important it is for us to be doers of The Word rather than just hearers only.
Ian Brearley

]]> By: Matt Stone http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/comment-page-1/#comment-21873 Matt Stone Sat, 30 Jun 2007 13:53:48 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/#comment-21873 I've been blogging on the religion stats over at http://mattstone.blogs.com and one of the interesting things is the inaccurate media reporting over the evangelical stats for Sydney. Noting the surge in Pentecostal numbers the media has concluded that evangelicalism is going great guns, but Pentecostalism is only one strand of evangelicalism and when you note that the Sydney Anglicans are dominated by Evangelicals then it starts looking real messy real quick. Be interested in discussing this more with interested people. Matt Stone I’ve been blogging on the religion stats over at mattstone.blogs.com and one of the interesting things is the inaccurate media reporting over the evangelical stats for Sydney. Noting the surge in Pentecostal numbers the media has concluded that evangelicalism is going great guns, but Pentecostalism is only one strand of evangelicalism and when you note that the Sydney Anglicans are dominated by Evangelicals then it starts looking real messy real quick. Be interested in discussing this more with interested people.

Matt Stone

]]> By: James Forsyth http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/comment-page-1/#comment-21838 James Forsyth Sat, 30 Jun 2007 03:50:09 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/#comment-21838 Thanks Bill, I've posted a link to this excellent article on my own site: http://www.jamesforsyth.net/bill-muehlenbergs-response-to-the-latest-census-figures/ James Forsyth Thanks Bill,

I’ve posted a link to this excellent article on my own site:

www.jamesforsyth.net/bill-muehlenbergs-response-to-the-latest-census-figures/

James Forsyth

]]> By: david skinner http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/comment-page-1/#comment-21796 david skinner Fri, 29 Jun 2007 14:28:37 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/#comment-21796 Dear Brothers in Christ, I must confess that I have a strong temptation to name drop and quote this or that, but the fact of the matter is that there is a real war on, with an enemy who, though invisible, is made visibly manifest by what is taking place within our nations. I hope that I don't see Bill's site simply as place to have my voice heard, but that we would each one of us contribute, however we can in this deadly war. Ewan, I believe the numbers quoted for homosexuality are grossly exaggerated, but the causes of homosexuality are many and various, some of which can be cured through psychotherapy. Joe Nicolosi from NARTH has written a book which must offer hope to sufferers of this CONDITION: http://www.narth.com/docs/repair.html The worrying thing is that homosexuality, bisexuality and transexuality can also be caused through societal factors, as witness Ancient Greece and most spectacularly with Sodom and Gomorrah. I believe we are witnessing the homosexualisation of western civilisation now - which will make it even harder for the homosexual to break from his or her bondage. David Skinner, UK Dear Brothers in Christ, I must confess that I have a strong temptation to name drop and quote this or that, but the fact of the matter is that there is a real war on, with an enemy who, though invisible, is made visibly manifest by what is taking place within our nations. I hope that I don’t see Bill’s site simply as place to have my voice heard, but that we would each one of us contribute, however we can in this deadly war.
Ewan, I believe the numbers quoted for homosexuality are grossly exaggerated, but the causes of homosexuality are many and various, some of which can be cured through psychotherapy. Joe Nicolosi from NARTH has written a book which must offer hope to sufferers of this CONDITION: www.narth.com/docs/repair.html
The worrying thing is that homosexuality, bisexuality and transexuality can also be caused through societal factors, as witness Ancient Greece and most spectacularly with Sodom and Gomorrah. I believe we are witnessing the homosexualisation of western civilisation now – which will make it even harder for the homosexual to break from his or her bondage.

David Skinner, UK

]]> By: Ewan http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/comment-page-1/#comment-21785 Ewan Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:38:02 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/#comment-21785 David, I have noticed certain atheists, whilst arguing with Bill in other places on this blog, claiming to be a persecuted minority. Indeed it is duplicitous of them to argue that way. Ewan McDonald, Victoria. David, I have noticed certain atheists, whilst arguing with Bill in other places on this blog, claiming to be a persecuted minority. Indeed it is duplicitous of them to argue that way.

Ewan McDonald, Victoria.

]]> By: Frank BELLET http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/comment-page-1/#comment-21780 Frank BELLET Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:27:48 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/#comment-21780 David Skinner introduced a very interesting website above, on the percentages of homosexuals in the community. Another gross exaggeration is the number often claimed (not so much recently) on the attendance figures at the Sydney homosexual mardi gras. In the past you went from one TV station to another, you would hear variable figures going from 500 thousand to 600 thousand to the best of all 700 thousand. Simple arithmetic will prove all these numbers to be false. The route of the parade takes in 2,500 metres (2.5km). Think of one front line along that distance. If you had 2 people in each metre, the front line (provided it was full) would have 5 thousand people. If they were 6 deep on the footpath, there would be 30 thousand on on footpath. If there were a similar situation on the other side, there would be a total of 60 thousand, if all positions were filled. Besides a claim of 700 thousand makes the ridiculous claim that the mardi gras, attracted more people the the total atendance at the Melbourne Cup, the AFL and NRL grand finals, plus the January attendance at the Australian tennis championships. I successfully had a letter, such as this published in a mainstrean newspaper. It must have had an effect, because a prominent announcer promoting the parade said on air that there would be 500 thousand watching the Gay Mardi Gras, but added somewhat sheepishly, "That includes those watching it on TV". Frank Bellet, Petrie, Queensland David Skinner introduced a very interesting website above, on the percentages of homosexuals in the community. Another gross exaggeration is the number often claimed (not so much recently) on the attendance figures at the Sydney homosexual mardi gras. In the past you went from one TV station to another, you would hear variable figures going from 500 thousand to 600 thousand to the best of all 700 thousand. Simple arithmetic will prove all these numbers to be false. The route of the parade takes in 2,500 metres (2.5km). Think of one front line along that distance. If you had 2 people in each metre, the front line (provided it was full) would have 5 thousand people. If they were 6 deep on the footpath, there would be 30 thousand on on footpath. If there were a similar situation on the other side, there would be a total of 60 thousand, if all positions were filled. Besides a claim of 700 thousand makes the ridiculous claim that the mardi gras, attracted more people the the total atendance at the Melbourne Cup, the AFL and NRL grand finals, plus the January attendance at the Australian tennis championships. I successfully had a letter, such as this published in a mainstrean newspaper. It must have had an effect, because a prominent announcer promoting the parade said on air that there would be 500 thousand watching the Gay Mardi Gras, but added somewhat sheepishly, “That includes those watching it on TV”.

Frank Bellet, Petrie, Queensland

]]> By: david skinner http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/comment-page-1/#comment-21774 david skinner Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:53:19 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/#comment-21774 In discussing evolutionary humanism we cannot dismiss its trojan horse, homosexuality; it will be with its enforced public acceptance that the doors will be thrown open to all other perversions. So here are some more valuable statistics in the numbers game: http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_AIM_Talk.html David Skinner, UK In discussing evolutionary humanism we cannot dismiss its trojan horse, homosexuality; it will be with its enforced public acceptance that the doors will be thrown open to all other perversions. So here are some more valuable statistics in the numbers game: www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_AIM_Talk.html
David Skinner, UK

]]> By: Frank BELLET http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/comment-page-1/#comment-21768 Frank BELLET Fri, 29 Jun 2007 06:39:32 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/#comment-21768 Bill's comments and statistics were very interesting. I was interested to read the blog by David Skinner. The homosexual community in Australia often claims 10% of the population. This is incorrect and a left-over from the discredited "Dr" Kinsey. If they had 10% membership, they would be forever conducting surveys on the matter. The two largest surveys on this subject were conducted by the Guttmacher organization in Seattle, Washington (59,000 males interviewed over two years) and the Welcome Trust in the UK. They arrived at similar figures:- a bit under 2% for males and 0.5 for females. Surveys done in Europe came up with very similar figures, except in Norway, where the figures for homosexuals were lower still, for both males and females. This would suggest that the claim of 10% for Australia is a figment of someone's imagination. Frank Bellet, Petrie Queensland Bill’s comments and statistics were very interesting. I was interested to read the blog by David Skinner. The homosexual community in Australia often claims 10% of the population. This is incorrect and a left-over from the discredited “Dr” Kinsey. If they had 10% membership, they would be forever conducting surveys on the matter. The two largest surveys on this subject were conducted by the Guttmacher organization in Seattle, Washington (59,000 males interviewed over two years) and the Welcome Trust in the UK. They arrived at similar figures:- a bit under 2% for males and 0.5 for females. Surveys done in Europe came up with very similar figures, except in Norway, where the figures for homosexuals were lower still, for both males and females. This would suggest that the claim of 10% for Australia is a figment of someone’s imagination.
Frank Bellet, Petrie Queensland

]]> By: david skinner http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/comment-page-1/#comment-21702 david skinner Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:48:21 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/28/sense-on-the-census/#comment-21702 Dear all, I managed to get on the BBC radio programme "Any Answers " the other week and was challenged by Jonathan Dimbleby that Christianity is a minority religion, world wide - let alone in Britain. I wish I had to hand the figures from any one of these sites: http://worldchristiandatabase.org/wcd/ http://www.gmi.org/ow/ http://www.gordonconwell.edu/ockenga/globalchristianity/ http://www.adherents.com/ Ewan, I don't believe the Evolutionary Humanists are able to make the claim that they are being persecuted as a minority when like Mr Dimbleby they claim we are in the minority! Unless this is a classic case of being totally inconsistent and selective. They cannot have it both ways. This, by the way, is the argument being put forward by the gay community. It is not equality they want; it is to completely run the Biblical family out of town. David Skinner, UK Dear all, I managed to get on the BBC radio programme “Any Answers ” the other week and was challenged by Jonathan Dimbleby that Christianity is a minority religion, world wide – let alone in Britain. I wish I had to hand the figures from any one of these sites:
worldchristiandatabase.org/wcd/
www.gmi.org/ow/
www.gordonconwell.edu/ockenga/globalchristianity/
www.adherents.com/
Ewan, I don’t believe the Evolutionary Humanists are able to make the claim that they are being persecuted as a minority when like Mr Dimbleby they claim we are in the minority! Unless this is a classic case of being totally inconsistent and selective. They cannot have it both ways. This, by the way, is the argument being put forward by the gay community. It is not equality they want; it is to completely run the Biblical family out of town.
David Skinner, UK

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