Comments on: All Porn, All the Time http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/ Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day... Tue, 07 Sep 2010 00:13:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Victoria http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/comment-page-1/#comment-24372 Victoria Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:38:01 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/#comment-24372 Jim, thanks for your reply. A few things: I realised that 1 Cor 10:31-32 is directed towards Christians, hence as a Christian, my own convictions of not causing others to stumble even in the attire that I wear; secondly, I do not know whether your family and mine differ in the clothing we wear (I've not met you, so I can't judge this); thirdly, in no uncertain terms do I excuse rape, or will ever excuse rape - regardless of what a person is wearing; and thirdly, I never asserted that change of fashions will increase sex crimes - an increase in such could be attributed to a combination of numerous factors (eg proliferation of pornography, increased sexual messages transmitted via media, a general degradation of morality and conscience, and the list goes on...). Please don't misrepresent me - I would never be so ignorant as to say that rape happens because people don't dress appropriately. Victoria Kalapac Jim, thanks for your reply. A few things: I realised that 1 Cor 10:31-32 is directed towards Christians, hence as a Christian, my own convictions of not causing others to stumble even in the attire that I wear; secondly, I do not know whether your family and mine differ in the clothing we wear (I’ve not met you, so I can’t judge this); thirdly, in no uncertain terms do I excuse rape, or will ever excuse rape – regardless of what a person is wearing; and thirdly, I never asserted that change of fashions will increase sex crimes – an increase in such could be attributed to a combination of numerous factors (eg proliferation of pornography, increased sexual messages transmitted via media, a general degradation of morality and conscience, and the list goes on…). Please don’t misrepresent me – I would never be so ignorant as to say that rape happens because people don’t dress appropriately.
Victoria Kalapac

]]> By: Jim http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/comment-page-1/#comment-23589 Jim Sun, 22 Jul 2007 01:56:37 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/#comment-23589 Hello Victoria The verses that you quoted were directed to Christians and not to non-Christians. I do not agree with the dress of many of the young adults these days (not just teenagers) but I do feel that their presentation is not an open invitation for rape based on the excuse that a person was tempted more than they could bear. We must realise that fashions change, my families sense of fashion is entirely different to yours so I cannot say that the way I dress is biblical and yours is not even though by modern standards it is conservative. Unfortunately the bible does not give a clear indication of the way to dress and the OT even condemns the wearing of cotton and wool together. Sex crimes have been prevalent in all times, we only have to look back to to 1945 when the Russians conquered Berlin to see rape and atrocities, also the results of Japanese conquest of China and Taiwan. I cannot agree with you that the change of fashions will increase sex crimes, if this were the case the "mini skirts" of the 70's were outrageous. I cannot accept the fact that the way a girl dresses is an excuse for non-control. Jim Sturla Hello Victoria
The verses that you quoted were directed to Christians and not to non-Christians.
I do not agree with the dress of many of the young adults these days (not just teenagers) but I do feel that their presentation is not an open invitation for rape based on the excuse that a person was tempted more than they could bear.
We must realise that fashions change, my families sense of fashion is entirely different to yours so I cannot say that the way I dress is biblical and yours is not even though by modern standards it is conservative.
Unfortunately the bible does not give a clear indication of the way to dress and the OT even condemns the wearing of cotton and wool together.
Sex crimes have been prevalent in all times, we only have to look back to to 1945 when the Russians conquered Berlin to see rape and atrocities, also the results of Japanese conquest of China and Taiwan.
I cannot agree with you that the change of fashions will increase sex crimes, if this were the case the “mini skirts” of the 70’s were outrageous.
I cannot accept the fact that the way a girl dresses is an excuse for non-control.
Jim Sturla

]]> By: Victoria http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/comment-page-1/#comment-23265 Victoria Wed, 18 Jul 2007 03:36:57 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/#comment-23265 Jim, whilst I do agree that self control is definitely a prime consideration in the prevalence of sex crimes, 1 Cor 10:31-32 actually encourages Christ followers to not cause anyone to stumble, by anything we do. I think that particularly as a Christian, it is my responsibility to not "conform myself" to the world's standards, but to set a godly example in my dress, and not assume that if I wear something provocative, someone is capable of "controlling themselves". Victoria Kalapac Jim, whilst I do agree that self control is definitely a prime consideration in the prevalence of sex crimes, 1 Cor 10:31-32 actually encourages Christ followers to not cause anyone to stumble, by anything we do. I think that particularly as a Christian, it is my responsibility to not “conform myself” to the world’s standards, but to set a godly example in my dress, and not assume that if I wear something provocative, someone is capable of “controlling themselves”.
Victoria Kalapac

]]> By: Jim http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/comment-page-1/#comment-23079 Jim Mon, 16 Jul 2007 01:19:15 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/#comment-23079 Hi Ewan, Thoroughly agree that the dress standards of 50 years ago were more conservative than they are today, but so were the dress standards of 200 years ago. Dress standards chang with fashion. At the turn of the 20th Century it was illegal to swim in the daylight hours on a public beach and having seen the neck to knee swimming costumes worn I can assure you that they were far from stimulating. Are you saying that the crime of rape has increased due to fashions changing? What scripture gives us direction regarding God's standard of dress? (The apostle Paul tells us that woman should dress in a conservative manner so as not to draw attention tp themselves and to disrespect their husbands.) I still dp not advocate provocatove fashions, but I feel that it is more an issue of self control than one of stimulation. Jim Sturla Hi Ewan,
Thoroughly agree that the dress standards of 50 years ago were more conservative than they are today, but so were the dress standards of 200 years ago. Dress standards chang with fashion.
At the turn of the 20th Century it was illegal to swim in the daylight hours on a public beach and having seen the neck to knee swimming costumes worn I can assure you that they were far from stimulating.
Are you saying that the crime of rape has increased due to fashions changing?
What scripture gives us direction regarding God’s standard of dress? (The apostle Paul tells us that woman should dress in a conservative manner so as not to draw attention tp themselves and to disrespect their husbands.)
I still dp not advocate provocatove fashions, but I feel that it is more an issue of self control than one of stimulation.
Jim Sturla

]]> By: Jonathan Sarfati http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/comment-page-1/#comment-22726 Jonathan Sarfati Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:09:28 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/#comment-22726 Is it any wonder we see an increase in the vile and inexcusable crime of rape when we are taught that we are just rearranged pond scum? Some evolutionists have even claimed that rape was also a behaviour that evolved so that men could propagate their genes more widely. One of them was tied in knots trying to justify why rape should be considered “wrong” under his own belief system—see <a href="http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/397" rel="nofollow">interview</a>. Jonathan Sarfati, Brisbane Is it any wonder we see an increase in the vile and inexcusable crime of rape when we are taught that we are just rearranged pond scum? Some evolutionists have even claimed that rape was also a behaviour that evolved so that men could propagate their genes more widely. One of them was tied in knots trying to justify why rape should be considered “wrong” under his own belief system—see interview.
Jonathan Sarfati, Brisbane

]]> By: Ewan http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/comment-page-1/#comment-22639 Ewan Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:01:30 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/#comment-22639 Jeremy has been misrepresented. It doesn't sound to me like he was blaming the girl. The 'wanting to have it both ways' comment meant that society by and large accepts preteen girls wearing g-strings whilst also complaining about lenient sentences. In other words, permissive in attitudes toward dress, whilst conservative in attitudes toward crime. And Jim, your daughter may dress conservatively by today's standards, but still be immodest by the standards of her grand parent's day. It's the old 'frog/lobster being slowly boiled to death in the saucepan' analogy again. The question we need to ask ourselves is: are dress standards more godly today, or less godly, than they were say 50 years ago? Ewan McDonald, Victoria. Jeremy has been misrepresented. It doesn’t sound to me like he was blaming the girl. The ‘wanting to have it both ways’ comment meant that society by and large accepts preteen girls wearing g-strings whilst also complaining about lenient sentences. In other words, permissive in attitudes toward dress, whilst conservative in attitudes toward crime.

And Jim, your daughter may dress conservatively by today’s standards, but still be immodest by the standards of her grand parent’s day. It’s the old ‘frog/lobster being slowly boiled to death in the saucepan’ analogy again. The question we need to ask ourselves is: are dress standards more godly today, or less godly, than they were say 50 years ago?

Ewan McDonald, Victoria.

]]> By: Jim http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/comment-page-1/#comment-22361 Jim Fri, 06 Jul 2007 00:10:11 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/#comment-22361 Hi Jay, I thoroughly agree with all that you say, even the point that you make in saying that you are not in agreement with Bill on all issues. I think Bill would agree that it is your right to hold an opinion even if it is contrary to his. I have a 19 year old daughter who dresses conservatively but is also very much aware of modern fashions. Her mode of dress is not the same as in my younger years nor is it the same as her grand parents standards. The way she dresses is not an invitation for rape. I really object to people making excuses for their inability to control their actions by pointing to others fashion sense or lifestyle as an instigation. Has Australian standards sunk so low that people no longer are capable of controlling their urges? Is it possible now that children can be held responsible for instigation of crimes against them? As a young man I too had urges and I was attracted to young women, but I conrolled these urges and I realised that perceived actions were a sin. Jim Sturla Hi Jay, I thoroughly agree with all that you say, even the point that you make in saying that you are not in agreement with Bill on all issues.
I think Bill would agree that it is your right to hold an opinion even if it is contrary to his.
I have a 19 year old daughter who dresses conservatively but is also very much aware of modern fashions.
Her mode of dress is not the same as in my younger years nor is it the same as her grand parents standards.
The way she dresses is not an invitation for rape.
I really object to people making excuses for their inability to control their actions by pointing to others fashion sense or lifestyle as an instigation.
Has Australian standards sunk so low that people no longer are capable of controlling their urges?
Is it possible now that children can be held responsible for instigation of crimes against them?
As a young man I too had urges and I was attracted to young women, but I conrolled these urges and I realised that perceived actions were a sin.
Jim Sturla

]]> By: Melinda Liszewski http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/comment-page-1/#comment-21875 Melinda Liszewski Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:22:20 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/#comment-21875 Jeremy - there is never ever an excuse for a man to rape a young girl. *She is ten years old.* He would never have known what type of underwear she was wearing if he'd kept his filthy pedophillic mits to himself. There should be more outrage over this and I believe the judge himself should be investigated as he is a pedophile sympathiser. This girl is in no way responsible for what happened to her but she will suffer from this for the rest of her life. Melinda Liszewski Jeremy – there is never ever an excuse for a man to rape a young girl. *She is ten years old.* He would never have known what type of underwear she was wearing if he’d kept his filthy pedophillic mits to himself. There should be more outrage over this and I believe the judge himself should be investigated as he is a pedophile sympathiser.

This girl is in no way responsible for what happened to her but she will suffer from this for the rest of her life.

Melinda Liszewski

]]> By: Jay Rusty http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/comment-page-1/#comment-21784 Jay Rusty Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:58:48 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/#comment-21784 Hi Jeremy, I think there should be outrage at any lenient sentence given to any rapist of any person anywhere. Rape is always wrong. The pity is that it doesn't wake us as a nation up to the realization that hardcore pornography and acting out sexual fantasies usually originates with soft-porn which is now fueled by our sex obsessed culture. It is sad that we don't actively do something about the root cause of rape, sexual obsession and porn related family breakdowns by eliminating the sexual garbage that invades our T.V., Supermarket Shelves, Petrol stations, Internet and Cinemas. Cheers to Bill in the fight for right that you are waging in this nation. (Even if I don't agree with you on everything) Jay Rusty, Melbourne Hi Jeremy,

I think there should be outrage at any lenient sentence given to any rapist of any person anywhere. Rape is always wrong.

The pity is that it doesn’t wake us as a nation up to the realization that hardcore pornography and acting out sexual fantasies usually originates with soft-porn which is now fueled by our sex obsessed culture.

It is sad that we don’t actively do something about the root cause of rape, sexual obsession and porn related family breakdowns by eliminating the sexual garbage that invades our T.V., Supermarket Shelves, Petrol stations, Internet and Cinemas.

Cheers to Bill in the fight for right that you are waging in this nation. (Even if I don’t agree with you on everything)

Jay Rusty, Melbourne

]]> By: Jeremy Peet http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/comment-page-1/#comment-21746 Jeremy Peet Thu, 28 Jun 2007 22:23:23 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/27/all-porn-all-the-time/#comment-21746 And yet there is still some outrage at the lenient sentence for the 'rapist' of the ten year old girl in the UK who was prancing around in a g-string. Perhaps trying (or wanting) to have it both ways? Jeremy Peet And yet there is still some outrage at the lenient sentence for the ‘rapist’ of the ten year old girl in the UK who was prancing around in a g-string.

Perhaps trying (or wanting) to have it both ways?

Jeremy Peet

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