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	<title>Comments on: The Family Obliterated</title>
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	<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/</link>
	<description>Bill Muehlenberg&#039;s commentary on issues of the day...</description>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Sarfati</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/comment-page-1/#comment-21994</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Sarfati</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 03:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/#comment-21994</guid>
		<description>Damien

I am still reading that Sowell book when I have time.  He has some interesting facts about domestic violence as well.  He shows that the women who are safest from domestic violence are &lt;i&gt;wives&lt;/i&gt;.  Women in de facto relationships are much more often the victims of violence.

Jonathan Sarfati, Brisbane</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damien</p>
<p>I am still reading that Sowell book when I have time.  He has some interesting facts about domestic violence as well.  He shows that the women who are safest from domestic violence are <i>wives</i>.  Women in de facto relationships are much more often the victims of violence.</p>
<p>Jonathan Sarfati, Brisbane</p>
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		<title>By: Rev. Greg Brien</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/comment-page-1/#comment-21511</link>
		<dc:creator>Rev. Greg Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/#comment-21511</guid>
		<description>The Islamisation of western society will put an end to all this. Just as Mohammed rose up against a corrupt Christianity in his day, so will Moslems today. Wait and see.
Rev. Greg Brien</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Islamisation of western society will put an end to all this. Just as Mohammed rose up against a corrupt Christianity in his day, so will Moslems today. Wait and see.<br />
Rev. Greg Brien</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Muehlenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/comment-page-1/#comment-21491</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Muehlenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 04:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/#comment-21491</guid>
		<description>Thanks Steve

It is obliterated by being redefined out of existence. And of course death, accidents and many other unfortunate situations often mean the family unit is broken up: eg., the death of a parent, and so on. But that is quite different from deliberately seeking to remake the family unit. Everywhere around the world the mother-father-child unit has been the norm. Today we are embarked on a radical social experiment which is undermining the natural family unit.

And as I said here and so many places elsewhere, you are absolutely wrong in stating that family structure makes no difference to the outcome of children. It overwhelmingly matters, as over 10,000 international studies from the past three decades have made absolutely clear.

So decisive is the data, that we can even document how kids will in fact do worse when a parent leaves the family because of divorce, than if a parent leaves a family because of death. The research on this has been very thorough and very meticulous.

By every indicator – be it educational outcomes, suicide rates, drug abuse, criminal involvement, etc. – the research is unmistakeable here: children do better, all things considered, and with all variables accounted for, when raised by their biological mothers and fathers, preferably cemented by marriage. There are exceptions of course, but exception do not make the rule.

So the issue here is not, say, the tragedy of a parent dying, but of deliberately bringing a child into the world knowing that one of the two most important players will be absent, by choice. So whether it is a same-sex couple, or a single woman choosing to parent a child, this is in fact a form of child neglect, as the social science data so clearly and decisively shows.

Finally, it is interesting how on so many other issues you make yourself out to be concerned only with the facts, evidence and data, not faith or felling. Yet on this issue Steve, you are ignoring or denying the data and evidence, while going instead on faith or feeling.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Steve</p>
<p>It is obliterated by being redefined out of existence. And of course death, accidents and many other unfortunate situations often mean the family unit is broken up: eg., the death of a parent, and so on. But that is quite different from deliberately seeking to remake the family unit. Everywhere around the world the mother-father-child unit has been the norm. Today we are embarked on a radical social experiment which is undermining the natural family unit.</p>
<p>And as I said here and so many places elsewhere, you are absolutely wrong in stating that family structure makes no difference to the outcome of children. It overwhelmingly matters, as over 10,000 international studies from the past three decades have made absolutely clear.</p>
<p>So decisive is the data, that we can even document how kids will in fact do worse when a parent leaves the family because of divorce, than if a parent leaves a family because of death. The research on this has been very thorough and very meticulous.</p>
<p>By every indicator – be it educational outcomes, suicide rates, drug abuse, criminal involvement, etc. – the research is unmistakeable here: children do better, all things considered, and with all variables accounted for, when raised by their biological mothers and fathers, preferably cemented by marriage. There are exceptions of course, but exception do not make the rule.</p>
<p>So the issue here is not, say, the tragedy of a parent dying, but of deliberately bringing a child into the world knowing that one of the two most important players will be absent, by choice. So whether it is a same-sex couple, or a single woman choosing to parent a child, this is in fact a form of child neglect, as the social science data so clearly and decisively shows.</p>
<p>Finally, it is interesting how on so many other issues you make yourself out to be concerned only with the facts, evidence and data, not faith or felling. Yet on this issue Steve, you are ignoring or denying the data and evidence, while going instead on faith or feeling.</p>
<p>Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/comment-page-1/#comment-21474</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 00:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/#comment-21474</guid>
		<description>When a couple marries they do so with an intention to begin a family.
Children are the fruit of a normal heterosexual relationship and regardless of how much love the homosexual group proclaims they cannot produce children.
The homosexual group &quot;chose&quot; their lifestyle and as such should accept the consequences of their choice.
If the fruit of the marriage is children and a homosexual relationship is unable to produce a child then how can it be recognised as a true marriage.
If my child behaved in the same manner as many &quot;left winged radicals&quot; I would tell her to grow up.
A person is faced daily with choices, we must abide by the results of our decisions not be blaming others others or trying to raise sympathy because what we decided to do did not produce the results we wanted.
Jim Sturla</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When a couple marries they do so with an intention to begin a family.<br />
Children are the fruit of a normal heterosexual relationship and regardless of how much love the homosexual group proclaims they cannot produce children.<br />
The homosexual group &#8220;chose&#8221; their lifestyle and as such should accept the consequences of their choice.<br />
If the fruit of the marriage is children and a homosexual relationship is unable to produce a child then how can it be recognised as a true marriage.<br />
If my child behaved in the same manner as many &#8220;left winged radicals&#8221; I would tell her to grow up.<br />
A person is faced daily with choices, we must abide by the results of our decisions not be blaming others others or trying to raise sympathy because what we decided to do did not produce the results we wanted.<br />
Jim Sturla</p>
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		<title>By: david skinner</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/comment-page-1/#comment-21393</link>
		<dc:creator>david skinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 06:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/#comment-21393</guid>
		<description>Dear Bill, Proverbs 14:12: “There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.” 

The homosexual war will be won, in the initial stages, by mimicking heterosexual marriage, but the homosexual community does not really want to replicate traditional marriage. When the homosexual community is offered marriage there is not exactly a stampede. The evidence shows that marriage does not suit their lifestyle, which in their own view is at the very cutting edge of Metro life. What they want is the acceptance and recognition, but it is heterosexual-like marriage which is easiest to sell to the wider heterosexual community. Even those who do want marriage - especially gay men - tend not to see a need to restrict their sexual activity to their menage.  Is this the real face of a homosexual family?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=408666&amp;in_page_id=1879&amp;in_a_source=

If people believe marriage is just an invention, then they will feel free to change it, redefine it, or even discard it. Clearly the ultimate aim is to destroy marriage completely.

David Skinner, UK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Bill, Proverbs 14:12: “There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.” </p>
<p>The homosexual war will be won, in the initial stages, by mimicking heterosexual marriage, but the homosexual community does not really want to replicate traditional marriage. When the homosexual community is offered marriage there is not exactly a stampede. The evidence shows that marriage does not suit their lifestyle, which in their own view is at the very cutting edge of Metro life. What they want is the acceptance and recognition, but it is heterosexual-like marriage which is easiest to sell to the wider heterosexual community. Even those who do want marriage &#8211; especially gay men &#8211; tend not to see a need to restrict their sexual activity to their menage.  Is this the real face of a homosexual family?<br />
<a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=408666&#038;in_page_id=1879&#038;in_a_source" rel="nofollow">www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=408666&#038;in_page_id=1879&#038;in_a_source</a>=</p>
<p>If people believe marriage is just an invention, then they will feel free to change it, redefine it, or even discard it. Clearly the ultimate aim is to destroy marriage completely.</p>
<p>David Skinner, UK</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Angelino, WA</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/comment-page-1/#comment-21322</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Angelino, WA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 14:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/#comment-21322</guid>
		<description>Damien,

Jonathan didn&#039;t actually provide any info.  While it&#039;s true to say that you can&#039;t compare marriages and divorces in any one year to determine the long-term divorce rate, the &quot;analogy&quot; in the last sentence about the death rate is a misleading example of the kind of the error involved.

The actual divorce rate in Australia, i.e. the percentage of marriages that end in divorce, depends on what period of time you look at the figures.  It currently stands at 40% according to the AIFS, but other sources suggest it is about 46%.  Not exactly great news.

I&#039;d like to know what Jonathan thinks the rate is.  It may not be 50% but it&#039;s not far below it.

Steve Angelino, WA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damien,</p>
<p>Jonathan didn&#8217;t actually provide any info.  While it&#8217;s true to say that you can&#8217;t compare marriages and divorces in any one year to determine the long-term divorce rate, the &#8220;analogy&#8221; in the last sentence about the death rate is a misleading example of the kind of the error involved.</p>
<p>The actual divorce rate in Australia, i.e. the percentage of marriages that end in divorce, depends on what period of time you look at the figures.  It currently stands at 40% according to the AIFS, but other sources suggest it is about 46%.  Not exactly great news.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to know what Jonathan thinks the rate is.  It may not be 50% but it&#8217;s not far below it.</p>
<p>Steve Angelino, WA</p>
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		<title>By: Damien Spillane</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/comment-page-1/#comment-21128</link>
		<dc:creator>Damien Spillane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 10:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/#comment-21128</guid>
		<description>Jonathon
Thanks for that bit of info. But I hear the bit about &#039;half of all marriages end in divorce&#039; advocated all the time in Australia and the US. I always thought it was accurate.
Damien Spillane</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathon<br />
Thanks for that bit of info. But I hear the bit about &#8216;half of all marriages end in divorce&#8217; advocated all the time in Australia and the US. I always thought it was accurate.<br />
Damien Spillane</p>
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		<title>By: david skinner</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/comment-page-1/#comment-21127</link>
		<dc:creator>david skinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/#comment-21127</guid>
		<description>Dear Jonathan, on the question of stastistics you are probably aware of Josh McDowell&#039;s Stewed Tomato analogy: a student claims that by puting a stewed tomato in his right track shoe he is able to do a 100 yard dash in 10 seconds, plus experience a peace, love and joy that he had never experienced before. Josh goes on to say that it is difficult to argue with a student like that if his life backs up what he says. However he then goes on to ask how many other people in that college, town, country and continent had experienced the same love, peace, joy and increased track speed as the result of stewed tomato in thier right track shoe.

If we apply that test to Eamon Waterford&#039;s experence of being related to four lesbians, we come to the same absurd conclusion. But when we ask how many children, grandchildren, communities and towns have experienced the same creativity, stability, care, respect, responsibility and self-sacrifice by being related to the heterosexual, monogomous and enduring family, the answer is that millions from all backgrounds, nationalites and professions have seen their lives elevated to new levels of peace and joy by following the Judeo/Christian model for the family.

David Skinner UK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Jonathan, on the question of stastistics you are probably aware of Josh McDowell&#8217;s Stewed Tomato analogy: a student claims that by puting a stewed tomato in his right track shoe he is able to do a 100 yard dash in 10 seconds, plus experience a peace, love and joy that he had never experienced before. Josh goes on to say that it is difficult to argue with a student like that if his life backs up what he says. However he then goes on to ask how many other people in that college, town, country and continent had experienced the same love, peace, joy and increased track speed as the result of stewed tomato in thier right track shoe.</p>
<p>If we apply that test to Eamon Waterford&#8217;s experence of being related to four lesbians, we come to the same absurd conclusion. But when we ask how many children, grandchildren, communities and towns have experienced the same creativity, stability, care, respect, responsibility and self-sacrifice by being related to the heterosexual, monogomous and enduring family, the answer is that millions from all backgrounds, nationalites and professions have seen their lives elevated to new levels of peace and joy by following the Judeo/Christian model for the family.</p>
<p>David Skinner UK</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Angelino, WA</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/comment-page-1/#comment-21091</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Angelino, WA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 00:44:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/#comment-21091</guid>
		<description>Bill,

I&#039;m puzzled by the title you chose for this piece.  In what way is &quot;the family&quot;, which I assume you mean in the generic sense, obliterated simply because different types of family exist in the world?  

Owing to divorce, death, alcohol, drugs, domestic violence, poverty, ignorance and other factors, many children are not raised in the &quot;natural family&quot; circumstances that you hold up as the only acceptable &quot;real&quot; family.

Surely the most important factor is that children are raised in a loving, caring, providing environment, and this story certainly indicates that this young man has had such an upbringing.  

Steve Angelino, WA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m puzzled by the title you chose for this piece.  In what way is &#8220;the family&#8221;, which I assume you mean in the generic sense, obliterated simply because different types of family exist in the world?  </p>
<p>Owing to divorce, death, alcohol, drugs, domestic violence, poverty, ignorance and other factors, many children are not raised in the &#8220;natural family&#8221; circumstances that you hold up as the only acceptable &#8220;real&#8221; family.</p>
<p>Surely the most important factor is that children are raised in a loving, caring, providing environment, and this story certainly indicates that this young man has had such an upbringing.  </p>
<p>Steve Angelino, WA</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Sarfati</title>
		<link>http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/comment-page-1/#comment-21025</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Sarfati</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/06/21/the-family-obliterated/#comment-21025</guid>
		<description>Same with the lie that half of all marriages end in divorce, totally demolished in Thomas Sowell&#039;s great book &lt;i&gt;The Vision of the Anointed&lt;/i&gt;.  This oft-repeated claim was based on statistics that showed in a given year, there were half as many divorces as marriages.  Of course, the stats for marriage were only for marriage &lt;i&gt;that began that year&lt;/i&gt;, while the divorces were for marriages &lt;i&gt;that had begun any year previously.&lt;/i&gt;  So this was like noting that there were twice as many births as deaths one year, then claiming that half the population was going to die any year!
Jonathan Sarfati, Brisbane</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Same with the lie that half of all marriages end in divorce, totally demolished in Thomas Sowell&#8217;s great book <i>The Vision of the Anointed</i>.  This oft-repeated claim was based on statistics that showed in a given year, there were half as many divorces as marriages.  Of course, the stats for marriage were only for marriage <i>that began that year</i>, while the divorces were for marriages <i>that had begun any year previously.</i>  So this was like noting that there were twice as many births as deaths one year, then claiming that half the population was going to die any year!<br />
Jonathan Sarfati, Brisbane</p>
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