Comments on: Christian Martyrs and the Power of Forgiveness http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/05/01/christian-martyrs-and-the-power-of-forgiveness/ Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day... Sat, 11 Feb 2012 04:37:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: John Mainwaring http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/05/01/christian-martyrs-and-the-power-of-forgiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-158174 John Mainwaring Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:25:27 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/05/01/christian-martyrs-and-the-power-of-forgiveness/#comment-158174 I thank God for their courage, and truely hope that if I ever ended up in a situation like theirs, that God was also grant me the strength and courage to face such oppression. What an example of what is it to live for Christ. As paul says, we should revel and delight in our sufferings, for it shows we belong to God. Jesus also says in John: 18"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. and also... 21They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me. 22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin. 23He who hates me hates my Father as well. 24If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: 'They hated me without reason. john chapter 16 vs' 2+3 also say: 2They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. 3They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. May we not be afraid of what happened to them. on the contrary, may we as believers be filled with hope and be insprired by the bravery and commitment of these 3 men, and aim to follow in their footsteps if necessary. Peter said to Jesus; "To where else would we go?" Jesus is the one with the words of eternal life and there is no other way to the father other than through him. The bible says "do not be afraid of those who can only destroy the flesh, but fear the Lord, who can destroy flesh and then has the authority to throw the soul into hell". I know who's side i'd rather be on! My amazing brothers & sisters in Christ; Do not fear. Be filled with courage and I pray the Lord will fill you with his beautiful spirit, which is a spirit of power, love, purity and of a sound mind. May you continue to be filled with the holy fire that comes from God and be stengthened every day in your walk with him who gave it all for you. You are so dearly loved, keep walking in that love. Yours in Christ John Mainwaring, UK I thank God for their courage, and truely hope that if I ever ended up in a situation like theirs, that God was also grant me the strength and courage to face such oppression.
What an example of what is it to live for Christ. As paul says, we should revel and delight in our sufferings, for it shows we belong to God. Jesus also says in John:

18″If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.
and also…
21They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me. 22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin. 23He who hates me hates my Father as well. 24If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.

john chapter 16 vs’ 2+3 also say:
2They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. 3They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me.

May we not be afraid of what happened to them. on the contrary, may we as believers be filled with hope and be insprired by the bravery and commitment of these 3 men, and aim to follow in their footsteps if necessary.
Peter said to Jesus; “To where else would we go?” Jesus is the one with the words of eternal life and there is no other way to the father other than through him. The bible says “do not be afraid of those who can only destroy the flesh, but fear the Lord, who can destroy flesh and then has the authority to throw the soul into hell”.
I know who’s side i’d rather be on!
My amazing brothers & sisters in Christ; Do not fear. Be filled with courage and I pray the Lord will fill you with his beautiful spirit, which is a spirit of power, love, purity and of a sound mind.
May you continue to be filled with the holy fire that comes from God and be stengthened every day in your walk with him who gave it all for you. You are so dearly loved, keep walking in that love.
Yours in Christ
John Mainwaring, UK

]]> By: Chris Trodden http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/05/01/christian-martyrs-and-the-power-of-forgiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-15058 Chris Trodden Thu, 10 May 2007 02:38:45 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/05/01/christian-martyrs-and-the-power-of-forgiveness/#comment-15058 There seems to be a continual playoff between the East and West Church. The Greek word for martyr (μαρτυρία , 1 John 5:9) means: to bear witness or testify. Henceforth, one of the most self evident ways to determine whether or not we in the West are truly living for God, should be measured by the words we speak and if we have the strength to live by, and defend those words. These three martyrs died because of their confession in Christ. Is it not possible that the only logical conclusion to radical discipleship is martyrdom, if not physically, then at the least spiritually? For, as Christ himself taught, “Let everyman take up his own cross and die to self” (Luke 9:23, author’s emphasis). Though the Western church does not face the same intensity of physical persecution, we do testify of Christ and, as a result, suffer spiritual abuse everyday. A more contextualized question for the West may emphasize, not whether or not we are willing to die for Christ, but; are we willing to live for him. Can we not be ‘living’ martyrs through an unwavering conviction and publication of Christ and his deeds? Chris Trodden There seems to be a continual playoff between the East and West Church. The Greek word for martyr (μαρτυρία , 1 John 5:9) means: to bear witness or testify. Henceforth, one of the most self evident ways to determine whether or not we in the West are truly living for God, should be measured by the words we speak and if we have the strength to live by, and defend those words.

These three martyrs died because of their confession in Christ. Is it not possible that the only logical conclusion to radical discipleship is martyrdom, if not physically, then at the least spiritually? For, as Christ himself taught, “Let everyman take up his own cross and die to self” (Luke 9:23, author’s emphasis).

Though the Western church does not face the same intensity of physical persecution, we do testify of Christ and, as a result, suffer spiritual abuse everyday.

A more contextualized question for the West may emphasize, not whether or not we are willing to die for Christ, but; are we willing to live for him. Can we not be ‘living’ martyrs through an unwavering conviction and publication of Christ and his deeds?

Chris Trodden

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/05/01/christian-martyrs-and-the-power-of-forgiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-14144 Bill Muehlenberg Thu, 03 May 2007 08:40:02 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/05/01/christian-martyrs-and-the-power-of-forgiveness/#comment-14144 Thanks Chris No, it is never a good thing to savagely torture and kill innocent people, regardless of where one’s eternal destiny will be. Remarks like yours simply reveal the callous and cold-hearted nature of atheism. Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks Chris

No, it is never a good thing to savagely torture and kill innocent people, regardless of where one’s eternal destiny will be. Remarks like yours simply reveal the callous and cold-hearted nature of atheism.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

]]> By: M.E.Huffmaster http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/05/01/christian-martyrs-and-the-power-of-forgiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-14095 M.E.Huffmaster Wed, 02 May 2007 19:23:48 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/05/01/christian-martyrs-and-the-power-of-forgiveness/#comment-14095 True, but let's also remember Jesus told us to hate the sin, but love the sinner. Trust me, I am careful! I live near the largest population of Arabs in the U.S., some Muslim/some (Lebanese) Christian. Many are from Iraq and our local news stations spotlighted them going to the polls for the first free Iraqi election. What I think we need to remember as Christians is to not demonize an entire population for the actions of a few. The martyred missionaires would not have us do so. Two of those killed were Muslim converts to Christ. They died serving their countrymen, human beings Christ loves as passionately as any Western child kneeling down by his/her bed to say nightly prayers. Their sacrifice is already bearing fruit. The Turkish people are realizing that an Islamist state will end their freedom and that Islam is not the religion of peace they were brainwashed to believe it was. We whine and cry about the state of the Western church while God is opening doors and hearts in the least expected places. I mourn for those lost and yet praise God for their faithfulness unto death. Would that we all had the faith and courage to live as they did. M.E.Huffmaster True, but let’s also remember Jesus told us to hate the sin, but love the sinner. Trust me, I am careful! I live near the largest population of Arabs in the U.S., some Muslim/some (Lebanese) Christian. Many are from Iraq and our local news stations spotlighted them going to the polls for the first free Iraqi election.

What I think we need to remember as Christians is to not demonize an entire population for the actions of a few. The martyred missionaires would not have us do so. Two of those killed were Muslim converts to Christ. They died serving their countrymen, human beings Christ loves as passionately as any Western child kneeling down by his/her bed to say nightly prayers. Their sacrifice is already bearing fruit. The Turkish people are realizing that an Islamist state will end their freedom and that Islam is not the religion of peace they were brainwashed to believe it was. We whine and cry about the state of the Western church while God is opening doors and hearts in the least expected places. I mourn for those lost and yet praise God for their faithfulness unto death. Would that we all had the faith and courage to live as they did.

M.E.Huffmaster

]]> By: John Angelico http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/05/01/christian-martyrs-and-the-power-of-forgiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-14072 John Angelico Wed, 02 May 2007 12:08:20 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/05/01/christian-martyrs-and-the-power-of-forgiveness/#comment-14072 M.E. Huffmaster said: <i>Let us remember as Paul said, our true enemies are not flesh and blood, but the powers and principalities that rule over those whom do not know Christ.</i> Well said, but let us also remember that the enemy works through people just as our God does, and we should take care, being alert to the wiles of that prowling lion, expressed through the people he uses. John Angelico M.E. Huffmaster said:
Let us remember as Paul said, our true enemies are not flesh and blood, but the powers and principalities that rule over those whom do not know Christ.

Well said, but let us also remember that the enemy works through people just as our God does, and we should take care, being alert to the wiles of that prowling lion, expressed through the people he uses.

John Angelico

]]> By: Chris Mayer http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/05/01/christian-martyrs-and-the-power-of-forgiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-14059 Chris Mayer Wed, 02 May 2007 07:22:29 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/05/01/christian-martyrs-and-the-power-of-forgiveness/#comment-14059 Surely Christian martyrs end up in heaven right? Isn't that a good thing? Chris Mayer Surely Christian martyrs end up in heaven right? Isn’t that a good thing?
Chris Mayer

]]> By: M.E.Huffmaster http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/05/01/christian-martyrs-and-the-power-of-forgiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-14044 M.E.Huffmaster Wed, 02 May 2007 04:11:19 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/05/01/christian-martyrs-and-the-power-of-forgiveness/#comment-14044 I don't think we Western Christians have any idea what may be in store for us someday. Perhaps those whom managed to survive the Nazi death camps could give us an inkling. Let us remember as Paul said, our true enemies are not flesh and blood, but the powers and principalities that rule over those whom do not know Christ. Peace be unto them whom have given up their lives for Him! M.E. Huffmaster I don’t think we Western Christians have any idea what may be in store for us someday. Perhaps those whom managed to survive the Nazi death camps could give us an inkling. Let us remember as Paul said, our true enemies are not flesh and blood, but the powers and principalities that rule over those whom do not know Christ. Peace be unto them whom have given up their lives for Him!
M.E. Huffmaster

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