Comments on: A review of The New Atheism and the Erosion of Freedom. By Robert Morey. http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/01/05/a-review-of-the-new-atheism-and-the-erosion-of-freedom-by-robert-morey/ Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day... Sat, 11 Feb 2012 12:39:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Jonathan Sarfati http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/01/05/a-review-of-the-new-atheism-and-the-erosion-of-freedom-by-robert-morey/comment-page-1/#comment-21364 Jonathan Sarfati Sun, 24 Jun 2007 23:44:47 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/01/05/a-review-of-the-new-atheism-and-the-erosion-of-freedom-by-robert-morey/#comment-21364 I've now been informed (by a fair-minded atheist who has taken fellow atheists to task for unfair attacks), then investigated further, that Morey doesn't seem to have read Capaldi's book or know much about his background. Checking on Amazon, its full title is <i>The Art of Deception: An Introduction to Critical Thinking : How to : Win an Argument, Defend a Case, Recognize a Fallacy, See Through a Deception, Persuade a Skeptic, Turn Defeat into Victory</i>. It appears to cover introductory logic, critical thinking, seeing through fallacies and contructing powerful arguments. The contents pages on the site and the reviews show that it's not a how-to-defeat-Christians guide. Also, Capaldi is Distinguished Scholar Chair in Business Ethics at Loyola University of New Orleans. So there is a good chance that he is a Catholic, rather than an antitheist. Publishing in an antitheistic press which has a virtual monopoly on the "<a href="http://www.tektonics.org/jesusexist/jesusexisthub.html" rel="nofollow">Jesus never existed</a>" nonsense is hardly encouraging, and this should send up red flags just as "Chick Publications" does for atheists (and informed Christians too). Nor is the fact that many Catholic universities are really CINO (Catholic In Name Only), e.g. teaching higher criticism and inviting pro-abortionist commencement speakers, and <a href="http://www.tldm.org/News9/abortionLoyolaChicago.htm" rel="nofollow">Loyola seems to fit the description</a>. But it's hardly plausible that they would appoint a high-profile atheist to be a chair, if that's what Morey claims Capaldi is. Jonathan Sarfati, Brisbane I’ve now been informed (by a fair-minded atheist who has taken fellow atheists to task for unfair attacks), then investigated further, that Morey doesn’t seem to have read Capaldi’s book or know much about his background. Checking on Amazon, its full title is The Art of Deception: An Introduction to Critical Thinking : How to : Win an Argument, Defend a Case, Recognize a Fallacy, See Through a Deception, Persuade a Skeptic, Turn Defeat into Victory. It appears to cover introductory logic, critical thinking, seeing through fallacies and contructing powerful arguments. The contents pages on the site and the reviews show that it’s not a how-to-defeat-Christians guide.

Also, Capaldi is Distinguished Scholar Chair in Business Ethics at Loyola University of New Orleans. So there is a good chance that he is a Catholic, rather than an antitheist. Publishing in an antitheistic press which has a virtual monopoly on the “Jesus never existed” nonsense is hardly encouraging, and this should send up red flags just as “Chick Publications” does for atheists (and informed Christians too). Nor is the fact that many Catholic universities are really CINO (Catholic In Name Only), e.g. teaching higher criticism and inviting pro-abortionist commencement speakers, and Loyola seems to fit the description. But it’s hardly plausible that they would appoint a high-profile atheist to be a chair, if that’s what Morey claims Capaldi is.

Jonathan Sarfati, Brisbane

]]> By: john http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/01/05/a-review-of-the-new-atheism-and-the-erosion-of-freedom-by-robert-morey/comment-page-1/#comment-3591 john Tue, 09 Jan 2007 14:40:31 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/01/05/a-review-of-the-new-atheism-and-the-erosion-of-freedom-by-robert-morey/#comment-3591 These things come and go. it should be noted that the most devout countries in Europe are the former communist ones - countries which endured 70 years of anti-theistic indoctrination and whose populations have more practical experience of anti-theism than any others informing their choice of belief. Without seeing any opinion polls, it suggests maybe the populations of those countries don't think anti-theism was the great civilising, egalitarian panacea they were told it would be, and that certain strong atheistic commentators tell us it would still be. People either have realised or will soon realise that militant anti-theism is as certain of itself, as zealous and as hostile to the non-believer as fundamental religion. There aren't easy answers in this life, and the reductionist philosophies promulgated by Richard Dawkins et al., are little better than the simplistic doctrines that say you can get to heaven simply by not eating pork, or by not engaging in pre-marital sex. Ultimately, I have faith in people, who have faced greater challenges than militant anti-theism, and seen them off. People are inherantly moderate, I believe, and belief in something greater than the self is something intrinsically human which would not go away even if that "belief in something greater than the self" were not belief in God. So whilst theistic belief and its perception may change, I doubt it will be lost. Even the Chinese Government now admits the importance of religion in society. John Muir These things come and go. it should be noted that the most devout countries in Europe are the former communist ones – countries which endured 70 years of anti-theistic indoctrination and whose populations have more practical experience of anti-theism than any others informing their choice of belief. Without seeing any opinion polls, it suggests maybe the populations of those countries don’t think anti-theism was the great civilising, egalitarian panacea they were told it would be, and that certain strong atheistic commentators tell us it would still be.
People either have realised or will soon realise that militant anti-theism is as certain of itself, as zealous and as hostile to the non-believer as fundamental religion.
There aren’t easy answers in this life, and the reductionist philosophies promulgated by Richard Dawkins et al., are little better than the simplistic doctrines that say you can get to heaven simply by not eating pork, or by not engaging in pre-marital sex.
Ultimately, I have faith in people, who have faced greater challenges than militant anti-theism, and seen them off. People are inherantly moderate, I believe, and belief in something greater than the self is something intrinsically human which would not go away even if that “belief in something greater than the self” were not belief in God. So whilst theistic belief and its perception may change, I doubt it will be lost. Even the Chinese Government now admits the importance of religion in society.

John Muir

]]> By: John Ballantyne http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/01/05/a-review-of-the-new-atheism-and-the-erosion-of-freedom-by-robert-morey/comment-page-1/#comment-3578 John Ballantyne Tue, 09 Jan 2007 11:27:33 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/01/05/a-review-of-the-new-atheism-and-the-erosion-of-freedom-by-robert-morey/#comment-3578 Thank you, Bill, for exposing the intolerant, militant and aggressive nature of atheism. Tobias Jones wrote on this theme recently in a fascinating article, "Secular fundamentalists are the new totalitarians", in the British daily paper, The Guardian (January 6, 2007). URL: www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1983820,00.html Jones describes how militant secularists wage war against the most innocent public manifestations of Christianity, and seldom encounter any resistance. He observes: "The greatest appeasers, however, have been the believers. Until recently many hid their religion in the closet. They conceded that it was something private. Until a few years ago religion was similar to soft drugs: a blind eye was turned to private use but woe betide you if you were caught dealing. Only recently have believers realised that religion is certainly personal,but it can never be private." I think there's a lesson here for all Christians. John Ballantyne, Melbourne. Thank you, Bill, for exposing the intolerant, militant and aggressive nature of atheism.

Tobias Jones wrote on this theme recently in a fascinating article, “Secular fundamentalists are the new totalitarians”, in the British daily paper, The Guardian (January 6, 2007). URL: www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1983820,00.html

Jones describes how militant secularists wage war against the most innocent public manifestations of Christianity, and seldom encounter any resistance.

He observes: “The greatest appeasers, however, have been the believers. Until recently many hid their religion in the closet. They conceded that it was something private. Until a few years ago religion was similar to soft drugs: a blind eye was turned to private use but woe betide you if you were caught dealing. Only recently have believers realised that religion is certainly personal,but it can never be private.”

I think there’s a lesson here for all Christians.

John Ballantyne, Melbourne.

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/01/05/a-review-of-the-new-atheism-and-the-erosion-of-freedom-by-robert-morey/comment-page-1/#comment-3543 Bill Muehlenberg Tue, 09 Jan 2007 03:18:11 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/01/05/a-review-of-the-new-atheism-and-the-erosion-of-freedom-by-robert-morey/#comment-3543 Thanks Paul But Augustine, like any good Christian apologist, simply sought to show the intellectual/philosophical superiority of the Christian worldview. He was not on a crusade to eradicate all competing points of view, as the militant anti-theists are bent on doing. It is one thing to engage in the debate of ideas and worldviews. It is another thing to say that opposing views are evil and dangerous, and must be eliminated at all cost. Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks Paul

But Augustine, like any good Christian apologist, simply sought to show the intellectual/philosophical superiority of the Christian worldview. He was not on a crusade to eradicate all competing points of view, as the militant anti-theists are bent on doing. It is one thing to engage in the debate of ideas and worldviews. It is another thing to say that opposing views are evil and dangerous, and must be eliminated at all cost.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

]]> By: Paul McNamara http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/01/05/a-review-of-the-new-atheism-and-the-erosion-of-freedom-by-robert-morey/comment-page-1/#comment-3511 Paul McNamara Mon, 08 Jan 2007 15:24:20 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/01/05/a-review-of-the-new-atheism-and-the-erosion-of-freedom-by-robert-morey/#comment-3511 "Many of today’s atheists however are on a crusade to rid the world of religion, especially Christianity. They are engaged in a direct challenge to, and attack on, God." Perhaps their inspiration for this crusuade came from reading St Augustine's, City of God, where he does a very good job of trying to remove every religious belief other than his own. No doubt atheists today also learn't many of the tricks of argument from Augustine as well. Paul McNamara “Many of today’s atheists however are on a crusade to rid the world of religion, especially Christianity. They are engaged in a direct challenge to, and attack on, God.”

Perhaps their inspiration for this crusuade came from reading St Augustine’s, City of God, where he does a very good job of trying to remove every religious belief other than his own. No doubt atheists today also learn’t many of the tricks of argument from Augustine as well.
Paul McNamara

]]> By: Jonathan Sarfati http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/01/05/a-review-of-the-new-atheism-and-the-erosion-of-freedom-by-robert-morey/comment-page-1/#comment-3437 Jonathan Sarfati Sat, 06 Jan 2007 00:38:14 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/01/05/a-review-of-the-new-atheism-and-the-erosion-of-freedom-by-robert-morey/#comment-3437 It's hardly surprising that antitheistic authors like Nicholas Capaldi published by antitheistic publishers like Prometheus Books should advocate deception. Under an atheistic world view, where we are just rearranged pond scum, there is nothing wrong with deception. It's about time that Christians realized the implications of an atheistic evolutionary worldview and stopped being so trusting of evolutionary "science" that can provide no objective basis for the rightness of truthtelling. Jonathan Sarfati. Brisbane It’s hardly surprising that antitheistic authors like Nicholas Capaldi published by antitheistic publishers like Prometheus Books should advocate deception. Under an atheistic world view, where we are just rearranged pond scum, there is nothing wrong with deception. It’s about time that Christians realized the implications of an atheistic evolutionary worldview and stopped being so trusting of evolutionary “science” that can provide no objective basis for the rightness of truthtelling.

Jonathan Sarfati. Brisbane

]]> By: Tasman http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/01/05/a-review-of-the-new-atheism-and-the-erosion-of-freedom-by-robert-morey/comment-page-1/#comment-3415 Tasman Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:58:12 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/01/05/a-review-of-the-new-atheism-and-the-erosion-of-freedom-by-robert-morey/#comment-3415 Bill, That sounds a useful book. I heard Graeme Samuel, Chairman of the ACCC, interviewed by Terry Lane (an atheist) on the ABC a few days ago, and he said that he was an atheist. About his atheism, Samuel said he occasionally has doubts, but if anyone could show him otherwise he would be quick to change his mind, which encouraged me to write to him. I found the <a href="”http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/flew-interview.pdf”" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">2004 interview</a> with Anthony Flew, legendary British atheist icon, interesting. At the age of 81 he announced he was no longer an atheist but a deist. He said, 'I think that the most impressive arguments for God’s existence are those that are supported by recent scientific discoveries.' Also, the <a href="”http://www.amazon.com/Surprised-Joy-Shape-Early-Life/dp/0156870118”" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">reviews of CS Lewis’s 'Surprised by Joy'</a> in which he describes his journey from atheism to belief in God were fascinating. He was a professor at Oxford, same as Richard Dawkins. In particular I was moved by this review: "This is not a novel and not really an autobiography, but rather a first-hand account of one man's journey from atheism to belief in God (Christianity came much later and is not covered in this book—for that, read his many religious works). I discovered this little gem while living in Scotland, at a time when I was neck-deep in the pit of atheism and feeling almost totally lost. I don't know why I was moved to take it off the shelf and buy it, but it was to be only the first of Lewis's books that I read. It's still my favorite because its theme is so close to me." What a graphic image: ‘neck-deep in the pit of atheism’. Another amazing story is of <a href="”http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/4711/”" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Zdenek Karasek</a>, who grew up as an atheist in communist Czechoslovakia. I’m convinced there is still hope for Richard Dawkins, which is why I continue to pray for him. I would like to know what it was that made him so angry with God. Tas Walker Bill,

That sounds a useful book.

I heard Graeme Samuel, Chairman of the ACCC, interviewed by Terry Lane (an atheist) on the ABC a few days ago, and he said that he was an atheist. About his atheism, Samuel said he occasionally has doubts, but if anyone could show him otherwise he would be quick to change his mind, which encouraged me to write to him.

I found the 2004 interview with Anthony Flew, legendary British atheist icon, interesting. At the age of 81 he announced he was no longer an atheist but a deist. He said, ‘I think that the most impressive arguments for God’s existence are those that are supported by recent scientific discoveries.’

Also, the reviews of CS Lewis’s ‘Surprised by Joy’ in which he describes his journey from atheism to belief in God were fascinating. He was a professor at Oxford, same as Richard Dawkins.

In particular I was moved by this review:
“This is not a novel and not really an autobiography, but rather a first-hand account of one man’s journey from atheism to belief in God (Christianity came much later and is not covered in this book—for that, read his many religious works). I discovered this little gem while living in Scotland, at a time when I was neck-deep in the pit of atheism and feeling almost totally lost. I don’t know why I was moved to take it off the shelf and buy it, but it was to be only the first of Lewis’s books that I read. It’s still my favorite because its theme is so close to me.”

What a graphic image: ‘neck-deep in the pit of atheism’.

Another amazing story is of Zdenek Karasek, who grew up as an atheist in communist Czechoslovakia.

I’m convinced there is still hope for Richard Dawkins, which is why I continue to pray for him. I would like to know what it was that made him so angry with God.

Tas Walker

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