Comments on: Suicide: A Biblical Assessment http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/ Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day... Tue, 07 Sep 2010 00:13:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Rachel Kollar http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/comment-page-1/#comment-1800 Rachel Kollar Sun, 19 Nov 2006 11:53:38 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/#comment-1800 This issue gets confusing because of our cultural ideals of personal peace and prosperity. In this day of age nothing is right or wrong unless if crosses these two things. Instead of sanctity of life we uphold quality of life. We cannot judge whether we or others should live or not live based on what we perceive to be quality of life, because this is an extremely relative measure. Is a life worthless when it become painful, when the quality decreases? Furthermore how do we determine when someone is at this point to be able to take their own life? The line will become increasingly blurry until we end up in a future with suicide clinics. If we allow euthanasia to happen what’s to stop people from getting legal aid to take their lives when they are in extreme emotional pain. Who decides when people are in enough pain to be eligible for euthanasia? Will people who are in extreme emotional pain but are healthy physically start fighting for their right to be aided in ending their life because they don’t deem it worth living anymore. Rachel Kollar, Perth This issue gets confusing because of our cultural ideals of personal peace and prosperity. In this day of age nothing is right or wrong unless if crosses these two things. Instead of sanctity of life we uphold quality of life. We cannot judge whether we or others should live or not live based on what we perceive to be quality of life, because this is an extremely relative measure. Is a life worthless when it become painful, when the quality decreases?

Furthermore how do we determine when someone is at this point to be able to take their own life? The line will become increasingly blurry until we end up in a future with suicide clinics. If we allow euthanasia to happen what’s to stop people from getting legal aid to take their lives when they are in extreme emotional pain. Who decides when people are in enough pain to be eligible for euthanasia? Will people who are in extreme emotional pain but are healthy physically start fighting for their right to be aided in ending their life because they don’t deem it worth living anymore.

Rachel Kollar, Perth

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/comment-page-1/#comment-743 Bill Muehlenberg Mon, 25 Sep 2006 04:40:47 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/#comment-743 Thanks Glenn You raise a few issues here. As I said elsewhere, a solid case can be made against euthanasia without appeal to scripture or religion. I and others have done that elsewhere. As to the Bible and current issues, well, yes and no. Sure, the Bible does not speak to us directly about such recent issues as stem-cell research, genetic engineering, and the like. But there are basic principles which can be drawn upon as we consider such controversial subjects. For example, many of the modern bioethics issues have to do not just with new developments in science and technology, but with age-old philosophical and theological questions, such as, What is it to be a person?, or, How do we understand human nature? For a believer, the Bible is a timeless book, and its truths are not culture bound nor subject to the whims of the clock. If there are absolute truths, then they must apply to all people at all times and in all places. But admittedly, applying universal truths to particular cases is still a difficult task. Finally, as to forcing our beliefs on to others and making their choices for them, that is certainly not what I am on about. I simply make a case on certain issues, and allow that discussion to take place in the public arena. It is the nature of democracies to allow competing beliefs and values to be discussed and debated openly in public. That is what I seek to do. I of course cannot compel people to do anything. But I can make my case, I can seek to persuade others, and I can let my opinions be made known to legislators. I hope that helps clarify where I am coming from. Thanks for writing Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks Glenn

You raise a few issues here. As I said elsewhere, a solid case can be made against euthanasia without appeal to scripture or religion. I and others have done that elsewhere.

As to the Bible and current issues, well, yes and no. Sure, the Bible does not speak to us directly about such recent issues as stem-cell research, genetic engineering, and the like. But there are basic principles which can be drawn upon as we consider such controversial subjects.

For example, many of the modern bioethics issues have to do not just with new developments in science and technology, but with age-old philosophical and theological questions, such as, What is it to be a person?, or, How do we understand human nature?

For a believer, the Bible is a timeless book, and its truths are not culture bound nor subject to the whims of the clock. If there are absolute truths, then they must apply to all people at all times and in all places. But admittedly, applying universal truths to particular cases is still a difficult task.

Finally, as to forcing our beliefs on to others and making their choices for them, that is certainly not what I am on about. I simply make a case on certain issues, and allow that discussion to take place in the public arena. It is the nature of democracies to allow competing beliefs and values to be discussed and debated openly in public. That is what I seek to do.

I of course cannot compel people to do anything. But I can make my case, I can seek to persuade others, and I can let my opinions be made known to legislators. I hope that helps clarify where I am coming from.
Thanks for writing

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

]]> By: Glenn Staunton http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/comment-page-1/#comment-742 Glenn Staunton Mon, 25 Sep 2006 04:19:24 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/#comment-742 Dear Bill, While I am not supportive of the idea of suicide, or of euthanasia - I find each to be an affront to the life we have been given - I am at the same time not supportive of the position that I can, because of my beliefs, tell and direct others as to how they are to behave. Further, the Bible is a book for its time, not an final, sole, authoritative reference for today's much more complicated, and enlightened world. The ongoing revelations of the nature of God and man lead us to making our own, individual choices in all matters. Unfortunately, the real sadness of choices for suicide and euthanasia is that we have failed one of our fellow human beings, and must live with that failure. We cannot make ourselves feel better by removing others' freedom to make thier own choices. I hope this gives you another perspective. Glenn Staunton, Calgary, Alberta, Canada (temporarily) Dear Bill, While I am not supportive of the idea of suicide, or of euthanasia – I find each to be an affront to the life we have been given – I am at the same time not supportive of the position that I can, because of my beliefs, tell and direct others as to how they are to behave. Further, the Bible is a book for its time, not an final, sole, authoritative reference for today’s much more complicated, and enlightened world. The ongoing revelations of the nature of God and man lead us to making our own, individual choices in all matters. Unfortunately, the real sadness of choices for suicide and euthanasia is that we have failed one of our fellow human beings, and must live with that failure. We cannot make ourselves feel better by removing others’ freedom to make thier own choices. I hope this gives you another perspective.

Glenn Staunton, Calgary, Alberta, Canada (temporarily)

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/comment-page-1/#comment-730 Bill Muehlenberg Sun, 24 Sep 2006 09:19:16 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/#comment-730 Thanks Veena A good question. At the outset it can be said that this passage has absolutely nothing to do with euthanasia or suicide. The context is this: Moses is concluding his discussion about the covenant made between Yahweh and Israel. The book of Deuteronomy spells out the obligations, conditions and consequences of this covenantal relationship. Briefly, the covenant enjoins faithful, obedient relationship. If that is maintained, there will be blessings (life) of all kinds, but primarily physical: the land will be secure, children will abound, the crops will flourish, flocks will be large, life will be long and healthy, and so on. Conversely, disobedience brings curses (death): enemies will invade, the crops will fail, animals will die, health will give way, and so on. What Moses is doing in this verse is encouraging the Israelites to make the right choices. If they choose to follow Yahweh and obey his commandments, they will experience his blessings: life in its fullest, in other words. But if they disobey and choose to violate the covenant conditions, they will experiences the curse, which can be summarised as death. Thus life and death here are the results of the choices that Israel make. They will get life or death depending on whether they obey or disobey God. It is clear that Moses wants the people of Israel to be faithful and obedient to God, and as a result enjoy long and prosperous life. If they do not, they will forfeit life and the blessings associated with it. Thus this verse has nothing to do with deciding whether one wants to end one’s life prematurely or not. Nowhere in Scripture are we encouraged to seek death by suicide or assisted suicide. I hope this helps. Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks Veena

A good question. At the outset it can be said that this passage has absolutely nothing to do with euthanasia or suicide.

The context is this: Moses is concluding his discussion about the covenant made between Yahweh and Israel. The book of Deuteronomy spells out the obligations, conditions and consequences of this covenantal relationship. Briefly, the covenant enjoins faithful, obedient relationship. If that is maintained, there will be blessings (life) of all kinds, but primarily physical: the land will be secure, children will abound, the crops will flourish, flocks will be large, life will be long and healthy, and so on. Conversely, disobedience brings curses (death): enemies will invade, the crops will fail, animals will die, health will give way, and so on.

What Moses is doing in this verse is encouraging the Israelites to make the right choices. If they choose to follow Yahweh and obey his commandments, they will experience his blessings: life in its fullest, in other words. But if they disobey and choose to violate the covenant conditions, they will experiences the curse, which can be summarised as death.

Thus life and death here are the results of the choices that Israel make. They will get life or death depending on whether they obey or disobey God. It is clear that Moses wants the people of Israel to be faithful and obedient to God, and as a result enjoy long and prosperous life. If they do not, they will forfeit life and the blessings associated with it.

Thus this verse has nothing to do with deciding whether one wants to end one’s life prematurely or not. Nowhere in Scripture are we encouraged to seek death by suicide or assisted suicide.

I hope this helps.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

]]> By: veena roberts http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/comment-page-1/#comment-729 veena roberts Sun, 24 Sep 2006 08:34:51 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/#comment-729 Dear Bill, I have struggled with this idea of euthanasia for a long time and I passionately love life and believe that only God has the right to take life. However, in Deuteronomy 30:19, there was a choice given to God's people to choose life or death and it was strongly advised to choose life but as it appears, it was a choice given to them. I somehow do not seem to think that this verse was merely talking about spiritual death, but I could be wrong, would you kindly shed some light in this matter? If this verse is indeed literal, then maybe we should give the people the choice of life and death in their last days but with a warning that it is not the preferred choice or would it indeed be a direct disobedience to the Lord? I hope you can offer more insight in this manner. Thanks. Veena Roberts Dear Bill,
I have struggled with this idea of euthanasia for a long time and I passionately love life and believe that only God has the right to take life. However, in Deuteronomy 30:19, there was a choice given to God’s people to choose life or death and it was strongly advised to choose life but as it appears, it was a choice given to them. I somehow do not seem to think that this verse was merely talking about spiritual death, but I could be wrong, would you kindly shed some light in this matter? If this verse is indeed literal, then maybe we should give the people the choice of life and death in their last days but with a warning that it is not the preferred choice or would it indeed be a direct disobedience to the Lord? I hope you can offer more insight in this manner. Thanks.

Veena Roberts

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/comment-page-1/#comment-726 Bill Muehlenberg Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:49:45 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/#comment-726 Thanks David. A few points. Yes we can now live longer, but we can also better treat pain. And no opponent of euthanasia argues that people in the course of dying should have their life artificially prolonged. And yes, many desire immortality, especially those who do not believe in an afterlife. As to Paul, he like any believer relishes the thought of being with Christ and out of this troubled world. But that desire was of course not a plea for either suicide or euthanaia on his part. Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks David.
A few points. Yes we can now live longer, but we can also better treat pain. And no opponent of euthanasia argues that people in the course of dying should have their life artificially prolonged. And yes, many desire immortality, especially those who do not believe in an afterlife.

As to Paul, he like any believer relishes the thought of being with Christ and out of this troubled world. But that desire was of course not a plea for either suicide or euthanaia on his part.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/comment-page-1/#comment-725 Bill Muehlenberg Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:42:15 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/#comment-725 Thanks John It should be noted that this article was an attempt by a believer to deal with the objections of other believers. Thus it was limited in its purpose. But a perfectly good case against legalised euthanasia can be made without any appeal to religion or scritpure. And that I have done elsewhere. See for example the other articles I have posted in the 'Euthanasia' section'. Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks John

It should be noted that this article was an attempt by a believer to deal with the objections of other believers. Thus it was limited in its purpose. But a perfectly good case against legalised euthanasia can be made without any appeal to religion or scritpure. And that I have done elsewhere. See for example the other articles I have posted in the ‘Euthanasia’ section’.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/comment-page-1/#comment-724 Bill Muehlenberg Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:36:56 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/#comment-724 Thanks Delma. Of course it is exactly because human beings are not animals that we treat them so differently. Because humans are not animals, we do not send them to the executioner to deal with pain. It is a strange kind of compassion that says the way to treat suffering is to kill the sufferer. Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks Delma.

Of course it is exactly because human beings are not animals that we treat them so differently. Because humans are not animals, we do not send them to the executioner to deal with pain. It is a strange kind of compassion that says the way to treat suffering is to kill the sufferer.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

]]> By: david esdaile http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/comment-page-1/#comment-721 david esdaile Sat, 23 Sep 2006 13:19:03 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/#comment-721 I agree with the general thrust of your argument, Bill, but the situation is complicated by the fact that medical advances have been such that many people live much longer in pain than has previously been possible. There is a fine line between actively seeking one's own death to alleviate prolonged agony and refusing any treatment that would artificially prolong life. We are in a society which so idolises life that we want to delay death at all costs. This is not a biblical position. Paul, in a sense, offered himself the choice of life or death (Philippians 1:22). For the sake of others, he chose life, against his desire to be with Christ. David Esdaile I agree with the general thrust of your argument, Bill, but the situation is complicated by the fact that medical advances have been such that many people live much longer in pain than has previously been possible. There is a fine line between actively seeking one’s own death to alleviate prolonged agony and refusing any treatment that would artificially prolong life.
We are in a society which so idolises life that we want to delay death at all costs. This is not a biblical position. Paul, in a sense, offered himself the choice of life or death (Philippians 1:22). For the sake of others, he chose life, against his desire to be with Christ.

David Esdaile

]]> By: John Robert http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/comment-page-1/#comment-720 John Robert Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:50:18 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/09/14/suicide-a-biblical-assessment/#comment-720 Rather than dredging up your folk stories from thousands of years ago why don't you look at contempory issues in a rational manner. I have no problem with you wishing to end your life in a long agonizing manner if that is your what you want. It would be nice if you could allow other people the same freedom,but I suppose you are against freedom as well as rational thought as evidenced by your rambling rant. John Robert Rather than dredging up your folk stories from thousands of years ago why don’t you look at contempory issues in a rational manner. I have no problem with you wishing to end your life in a long agonizing manner if that is your what you want. It would be nice if you could allow other people the same freedom,but I suppose you are against freedom as well as rational thought as evidenced by your rambling rant.
John Robert

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