Comments on: Making Nothing out of Something http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/29/making-nothing-out-of-something/ Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day... Sat, 11 Feb 2012 02:03:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Ineke Laning http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/29/making-nothing-out-of-something/comment-page-1/#comment-377 Ineke Laning Mon, 03 Jul 2006 02:23:53 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/29/making-nothing-out-of-something/#comment-377 Ms Probyn's logic should then extend to other relationships shouldn't it? Adults who prefer 'mutually satisfying' relationships with consenting children who have been perhaps groomed for their preference? Where will the line finally be drawn? We will regret tampering with God's definition of marriage. For an intellectual, Ms Probyn's views seem very short sighted. Ineke Laning Ms Probyn’s logic should then extend to other relationships shouldn’t it? Adults who prefer ‘mutually satisfying’ relationships with consenting children who have been perhaps groomed for their preference? Where will the line finally be drawn? We will regret tampering with God’s definition of marriage. For an intellectual, Ms Probyn’s views seem very short sighted.

Ineke Laning

]]> By: Erik Werps, Melbourne http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/29/making-nothing-out-of-something/comment-page-1/#comment-368 Erik Werps, Melbourne Sat, 01 Jul 2006 03:30:43 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/29/making-nothing-out-of-something/#comment-368 Thank you Bill for your article. I had a chuckle about your analogy with the football team, so obvious and yet so true! Thank you Peter Howard (30.06.06) for clarifying the distorted arguments in professor Elspeth Probyn's article. It is a sad situation that learned people can be so misguided on the important issue of what it is that holds our society together, ie. marriage and family. If it is accepted in nuclear physics that, as Peter Howard reminds us, "the atom is the building block of the universe", and the same design principle of 'opposites' applies in marriage and the reproduction of the human species, can we therefore not accept that the (heterosexual) family is the building block of our society? Does anyone detect a designer behind this at all? History tells us that marriage and the (heterosexual) family have been around for quite some time. There is an old Australian saying: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" Erik Werps, Melbourne Thank you Bill for your article.

I had a chuckle about your analogy with the football team, so obvious and yet so true!

Thank you Peter Howard (30.06.06) for clarifying the distorted arguments in professor Elspeth Probyn’s article.

It is a sad situation that learned people can be so misguided on the important issue of what it is that holds our society together, ie. marriage and family.

If it is accepted in nuclear physics that, as Peter Howard reminds us, “the atom is the building block of the universe”, and the same design principle of ‘opposites’ applies in marriage and the reproduction of the human species, can we therefore not accept that the (heterosexual) family is the building block of our society?

Does anyone detect a designer behind this at all?

History tells us that marriage and the (heterosexual) family have been around for quite some time.

There is an old Australian saying:

“If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!”

Erik Werps, Melbourne

]]> By: Jessica Magno http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/29/making-nothing-out-of-something/comment-page-1/#comment-367 Jessica Magno Sat, 01 Jul 2006 01:01:00 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/29/making-nothing-out-of-something/#comment-367 I've been in gender study and women studies classes at universities, before I saw the the light and the error of my ways! It does not surprise me that there is another ludicrous article that has come out with the same shallow arguments and biases that will entice other "radicals" to talk the same talk as Elspeth Probyn, and walk the same walk! Promoting nothing out of something as you put it Bill is walking around our university campuses and schools dictating curriculums and arguments in the lecture halls, even writing in our newspapers and getting favour for their "inclusive" views...scary huh? I agree with you Peter, John Howard has got it right. Toying with the idea of homosexual marriages in this nation could have devastating effects on our children and the very foundations of our family structures in this nation. Jessica Magno I’ve been in gender study and women studies classes at universities, before I saw the the light and the error of my ways! It does not surprise me that there is another ludicrous article that has come out with the same shallow arguments and biases that will entice other “radicals” to talk the same talk as Elspeth Probyn, and walk the same walk!
Promoting nothing out of something as you put it Bill is walking around our university campuses and schools dictating curriculums and arguments in the lecture halls, even writing in our newspapers and getting favour for their “inclusive” views…scary huh?
I agree with you Peter, John Howard has got it right. Toying with the idea of homosexual marriages in this nation could have devastating effects on our children and the very foundations of our family structures in this nation.

Jessica Magno

]]> By: Dawn McGregor http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/29/making-nothing-out-of-something/comment-page-1/#comment-363 Dawn McGregor Fri, 30 Jun 2006 06:32:23 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/29/making-nothing-out-of-something/#comment-363 Thank you Bill, Jim, James and Peter for putting it so well. Dawn McGregor, Sunshine Coast Qld Thank you Bill, Jim, James and Peter for putting it so well.

Dawn McGregor, Sunshine Coast Qld

]]> By: Peter Howard http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/29/making-nothing-out-of-something/comment-page-1/#comment-359 Peter Howard Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:56:53 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/29/making-nothing-out-of-something/#comment-359 Well said Bill Muehlenberg- and Thank You Elspeth Probyn! Through distorted logic and absurd reasoning Probyn has confirmed what we have been saying for far too long. The Family unit is a vital part of our society as should remain so. Let us consider for a moment some of the arguments that Probyn puts across in her article. Distorted argument No 1: (I quote) "The thing that politicians forget when they rail against gay marriage is that gays have families. When they march up the aisle, it is not as lonely individuals but as family members: brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, nephews, nieces, mothers and fathers...." Yes Probyn, they have ALL come from families - as a result of heterosexual union. But just where are they going? The end result of a same sex marriage is certainly not going to be children is it! So, despite your protestations that they are “not lonely individuals” they certainly will become so in a very short period of time. Just one generation would be enough - if we were to all follow the example being espoused by Probyn. Distorted Argument No 2: (I quote) "the extended family is a much healthier option than the atomistic and lonely image of the traditional family of mother, father and kids." Lonely? Atomistic? In who’s mind? Certinal none of the people I know! To describe the traditional family as Atomistic is absolute nonsense - a clever use of words to distort the reality. Atomistic means "Divided into separate and often disparate elements" however the traditional family unit that we support is quite the opposite. It is the building block of society - just as the atom is the building block of our universe. Certainly, some families move geographically apart, however Probyn has demonstrated very effectively the strong life-long tie of blood relations as she, her brothers and her sisters travel across the globe to the support of an ill brother in Canada! Family in it’s finest sense! What she doesn't understand is that atoms are finely balanced. Perfectly organised with a strong attraction and bonding through Protons Neutrons and Electrons. - Like Mother, Father and Kids! When we split the atom we get nuclear explosions... Consider Probyns ‘atomistic’ family in those terms! Which leads me to... Distorted Argument No 3: (I quote) "Colleen Hayward, an Aboriginal scholar at the Kulunga Research Network and the Telethon Institute for Child Health Research in Perth, spoke powerfully about her family of nine......" Probyn goes on to say how this FAMILY of nine took in other children in need... ("her family would take in other children when the going got tough") Interesting isn't it? Where did the officials look for support for those children in need of support and stability? They looked to a stable well established family of nine! Certainly not separate or disparate! They didn't look for 2 gay partners to help resolve the problem! It is more likely that these children were coming FROM just such a situation! Research shows clearly how unstable same sex marriages are! Finally, Probyn refers to John Howards "Luck" in defeating the same sex marriage bill. I have news for her. John Howard is the chosen representative of the people and is is representing their views. Lucky? No. Moral and stable - absolutely. He has my vote. Perhaps Probyn should remain in Canada to pursue her selfish and non-productive lifestyle there. Peter Howard, Sydney Well said Bill Muehlenberg- and Thank You Elspeth Probyn! Through distorted logic and absurd reasoning Probyn has confirmed what we have been saying for far too long. The Family unit is a vital part of our society as should remain so.

Let us consider for a moment some of the arguments that Probyn puts across in her article.

Distorted argument No 1: (I quote) “The thing that politicians forget when they rail against gay marriage is that gays have families. When they march up the aisle, it is not as lonely individuals but as family members: brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, nephews, nieces, mothers and fathers….” Yes Probyn, they have ALL come from families – as a result of heterosexual union. But just where are they going? The end result of a same sex marriage is certainly not going to be children is it! So, despite your protestations that they are “not lonely individuals” they certainly will become so in a very short period of time. Just one generation would be enough – if we were to all follow the example being espoused by Probyn.

Distorted Argument No 2: (I quote) “the extended family is a much healthier option than the atomistic and lonely image of the traditional family of mother, father and kids.” Lonely? Atomistic? In who’s mind? Certinal none of the people I know! To describe the traditional family as Atomistic is absolute nonsense – a clever use of words to distort the reality. Atomistic means “Divided into separate and often disparate elements” however the traditional family unit that we support is quite the opposite. It is the building block of society – just as the atom is the building block of our universe. Certainly, some families move geographically apart, however Probyn has demonstrated very effectively the strong life-long tie of blood relations as she, her brothers and her sisters travel across the globe to the support of an ill brother in Canada! Family in it’s finest sense!

What she doesn’t understand is that atoms are finely balanced. Perfectly organised with a strong attraction and bonding through Protons Neutrons and Electrons. – Like Mother, Father and Kids! When we split the atom we get nuclear explosions… Consider Probyns ‘atomistic’ family in those terms!

Which leads me to…

Distorted Argument No 3: (I quote) “Colleen Hayward, an Aboriginal scholar at the Kulunga Research Network and the Telethon Institute for Child Health Research in Perth, spoke powerfully about her family of nine……” Probyn goes on to say how this FAMILY of nine took in other children in need… (“her family would take in other children when the going got tough”) Interesting isn’t it? Where did the officials look for support for those children in need of support and stability? They looked to a stable well established family of nine! Certainly not separate or disparate! They didn’t look for 2 gay partners to help resolve the problem! It is more likely that these children were coming FROM just such a situation! Research shows clearly how unstable same sex marriages are!

Finally, Probyn refers to John Howards “Luck” in defeating the same sex marriage bill. I have news for her. John Howard is the chosen representative of the people and is is representing their views. Lucky? No. Moral and stable – absolutely. He has my vote.

Perhaps Probyn should remain in Canada to pursue her selfish and non-productive lifestyle there.

Peter Howard, Sydney

]]> By: James Forsyth http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/29/making-nothing-out-of-something/comment-page-1/#comment-342 James Forsyth Thu, 29 Jun 2006 09:42:20 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/29/making-nothing-out-of-something/#comment-342 If indeed she does go to Canada, maybe she'd prefer to live in Ontario - an area of which now has Sharia law. Perhaps she'd be happier under that sort of government. James Forsyth, China If indeed she does go to Canada, maybe she’d prefer to live in Ontario – an area of which now has Sharia law. Perhaps she’d be happier under that sort of government.

James Forsyth, China

]]> By: Jim Spencer http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/29/making-nothing-out-of-something/comment-page-1/#comment-340 Jim Spencer Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:28:57 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/29/making-nothing-out-of-something/#comment-340 I think it is unfortunate that prople like Elspeth Probyn are given a voice in the media and prominant positions in our educational institutions when their opinions about lifestyle choices of a subculture representing no more than 2% of Australians try to challenge the definition of family. Children are best served in a family with one mother and one father in a marriage relationship. To argue otherwise is to ignore vast amounts of evidence that support this. Interestingly enough it is people employed in our universities that are capable of doing so. Jim Spencer I think it is unfortunate that prople like Elspeth Probyn are given a voice in the media and prominant positions in our educational institutions when their opinions about lifestyle choices of a subculture representing no more than 2% of Australians try to challenge the definition of family. Children are best served in a family with one mother and one father in a marriage relationship. To argue otherwise is to ignore vast amounts of evidence that support this. Interestingly enough it is people employed in our universities that are capable of doing so.

Jim Spencer

]]> By: Lyle Hutchinson http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/29/making-nothing-out-of-something/comment-page-1/#comment-339 Lyle Hutchinson Thu, 29 Jun 2006 07:17:07 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/29/making-nothing-out-of-something/#comment-339 I couldn't agree more with Bill's assessment of this woman's drivel. She uses commonly accepted terms in order to justify a change in the meaning of those same terms. If she wants to go to Canada [as she mentions in her article] I say let her go and hopefuly she'll stay there. Lyle Hutchinson I couldn’t agree more with Bill’s assessment of this woman’s drivel. She uses commonly accepted terms in order to justify a change in the meaning of those same terms. If she wants to go to Canada [as she mentions in her article] I say let her go and hopefuly she’ll stay there.

Lyle Hutchinson

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