Comments on: Mums and Dads To Be Banned http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/ Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day... Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:27:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Duane Proud http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/comment-page-1/#comment-71376 Duane Proud Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:49:08 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/#comment-71376 The Fatherhood Foundation published a study in 2007 called '21 Reasons Why Gender Matters', that is based on four foundational principles: 1. Gender differences exist 2. Acknowledging gender differences is the only intellectually honest response to this reality 3. Gender differences are complementary 4. Gender disorientation exists in a small minority of individuals. It is not normative and should not drive social policies Expectedly the study makes many recommendations that I imagine drive policy in the opposite direction that many homosexual lobbyists would like to see it go. Some of the recommendations that really stand out in light of this story are: “That parenting be understood and defined in terms of the complementarity of motherhood and fatherhood.” That public monies not be used to promote the homosexual lifestyle…” “That schools be prevented from being used as a channel for the promotion of the homosexual lifestyle.” Duane Proud The Fatherhood Foundation published a study in 2007 called ’21 Reasons Why Gender Matters’, that is based on four foundational principles:

1. Gender differences exist
2. Acknowledging gender differences is the only intellectually honest response to this reality
3. Gender differences are complementary
4. Gender disorientation exists in a small minority of individuals. It is not normative and should not drive social policies

Expectedly the study makes many recommendations that I imagine drive policy in the opposite direction that many homosexual lobbyists would like to see it go.

Some of the recommendations that really stand out in light of this story are:

“That parenting be understood and defined in terms of the complementarity of motherhood and fatherhood.”

That public monies not be used to promote the homosexual lifestyle…”

“That schools be prevented from being used as a channel for the promotion of the homosexual lifestyle.”

Duane Proud

]]> By: Garth Penglase http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/comment-page-1/#comment-30117 Garth Penglase Wed, 19 Sep 2007 02:24:03 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/#comment-30117 Oh, and Vicki... Why say "I am merely the editor"? Either you chose to do it because you believe in it, which you state that you do, or you would be disingenuous in the presentation of it, which you aren't. But let's be real - it promotes a philosophy and agenda which is shown to cause real damage to our children. What's more important? Political correctness and foisting your attitudes on unsuspecting innocents, or the emotional and mental care of our children. Garth Penglase Oh, and Vicki…

Why say “I am merely the editor”? Either you chose to do it because you believe in it, which you state that you do, or you would be disingenuous in the presentation of it, which you aren’t.

But let’s be real – it promotes a philosophy and agenda which is shown to cause real damage to our children. What’s more important? Political correctness and foisting your attitudes on unsuspecting innocents, or the emotional and mental care of our children.

Garth Penglase

]]> By: Garth Penglase http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/comment-page-1/#comment-30115 Garth Penglase Wed, 19 Sep 2007 02:17:52 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/#comment-30115 To borrow a quote from your pages... "When common sense ceases to be common, a society is in terminal decay." G K Chesterton This is juts P.C. madness. Like giving everyone an award so that underachievers don't feel demeaned. If the purpose is to make kids feel included I appreciate the sentiment, but as Jacob Kollar states, it's a band-aid solution. I was a child of divorce - just made me want to be committed to a family all the more. Leading kids down this path of confusion just leads to their destruction, and that of society. Garth Penglase To borrow a quote from your pages…

“When common sense ceases to be common, a society is in terminal decay.”
G K Chesterton

This is juts P.C. madness.

Like giving everyone an award so that underachievers don’t feel demeaned. If the purpose is to make kids feel included I appreciate the sentiment, but as Jacob Kollar states, it’s a band-aid solution. I was a child of divorce – just made me want to be committed to a family all the more. Leading kids down this path of confusion just leads to their destruction, and that of society.

Garth Penglase

]]> By: Dunstan Hartley http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/comment-page-1/#comment-1911 Dunstan Hartley Thu, 23 Nov 2006 08:59:11 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/#comment-1911 Well written Jacob. In fact there is a wealth of statistical information to back up your comment that kids who live with their own mother and father in a committed marriage perform better under all social, educational and economic indicators than the alternatives suggested by Vicki Harding. One can only wonder at her agenda in trying to change all this. Ultimately she will find, what society has always known, that after she and her associates have dismantled it they will be compelled to re-invent the wheel. Dunstan Hartley Well written Jacob. In fact there is a wealth of statistical information to back up your comment that kids who live with their own mother and father in a committed marriage perform better under all social, educational and economic indicators than the alternatives suggested by Vicki Harding. One can only wonder at her agenda in trying to change all this. Ultimately she will find, what society has always known, that after she and her associates have dismantled it they will be compelled to re-invent the wheel.

Dunstan Hartley

]]> By: jacob kollar http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/comment-page-1/#comment-1791 jacob kollar Sun, 19 Nov 2006 06:07:14 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/#comment-1791 I was born in the 80's and have spent the last 7 years working in high schools. I have both grown up and worked with kids that don't have Dad's and Mum's or live in hybrid or new families etc. The kids that grow up in these situations from my observations unfortunately seem to suffer as a result of their parent's alternative lifestyles. Therefore I am concerned about this issue. I can understand why people like Vicki Harding would support an idea that neutralizes the traditional family in order to protect kids that aren’t in them and prepare kids for the “real world”. Unfortunately, to be bold, I see this as just “band aid” to another larger problem. In a majority of situations where I have observed kids growing up without their own mum and dad or in a new “progressive” family environment I notice a common theme of social mal adjustment. In some respects the kids may be “normal” but so often it seems to come a point where they are no longer able to advance with the rest. I would even go as far to say that this is not strictly limited to social growth but it also seems to effect academic and lesser extents artistic and physical development. There is certain boldness and confidence that comes from a kid knowing this is Mum and this is my Dad. Mums like this and Dad does that. In our day and age we cite the freedom to “explore and discover” who we are but it seems to me those that are from the traditional family seem to have had in a lot of cases a fairly reasonable head start in figuring out who they are and what they do. So back to the “band aid to a larger problem” statement. The larger problem as I see it is this persistence in cultivating an alternative family option and letting our kids decide what is normal will only contribute to the problem stated above Kids have to figure out who they are on their own. Again the problem with this is that the traditional family’s answers for the most part have stood the test of time in regards to helping kids understand who they are. I admit their may be some glitches in the old system but 40 years of social experimentation it would seem has failed to come up with a better alternative. I am really just airing my concerns and opinions here. But instead of letting kids say what they want about family wouldn’t it be better to train them in a way that works? Jacob Kollar, Perth I was born in the 80′s and have spent the last 7 years working in high schools. I have both grown up and worked with kids that don’t have Dad’s and Mum’s or live in hybrid or new families etc. The kids that grow up in these situations from my observations unfortunately seem to suffer as a result of their parent’s alternative lifestyles. Therefore I am concerned about this issue.
I can understand why people like Vicki Harding would support an idea that neutralizes the traditional family in order to protect kids that aren’t in them and prepare kids for the “real world”. Unfortunately, to be bold, I see this as just “band aid” to another larger problem.
In a majority of situations where I have observed kids growing up without their own mum and dad or in a new “progressive” family environment I notice a common theme of social mal adjustment. In some respects the kids may be “normal” but so often it seems to come a point where they are no longer able to advance with the rest. I would even go as far to say that this is not strictly limited to social growth but it also seems to effect academic and lesser extents artistic and physical development.
There is certain boldness and confidence that comes from a kid knowing this is Mum and this is my Dad. Mums like this and Dad does that. In our day and age we cite the freedom to “explore and discover” who we are but it seems to me those that are from the traditional family seem to have had in a lot of cases a fairly reasonable head start in figuring out who they are and what they do.
So back to the “band aid to a larger problem” statement. The larger problem as I see it is this persistence in cultivating an alternative family option and letting our kids decide what is normal will only contribute to the problem stated above Kids have to figure out who they are on their own. Again the problem with this is that the traditional family’s answers for the most part have stood the test of time in regards to helping kids understand who they are. I admit their may be some glitches in the old system but 40 years of social experimentation it would seem has failed to come up with a better alternative.
I am really just airing my concerns and opinions here. But instead of letting kids say what they want about family wouldn’t it be better to train them in a way that works?

Jacob Kollar, Perth

]]> By: Vicki Harding http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/comment-page-1/#comment-1616 Vicki Harding Mon, 13 Nov 2006 01:26:42 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/#comment-1616 Ahhh, well on this we will obviously never agree. I want my family included in the definition of family, you don't. I want my family form to be represented in schools, you don't. But I am pleased you took the time to read the Teacher's Manual (wish I could say the same for journalists) which was created by academics and teachers. I am merely the editor! Regards, Vicki Harding, NSW Ahhh, well on this we will obviously never agree.

I want my family included in the definition of family, you don’t.

I want my family form to be represented in schools, you don’t.

But I am pleased you took the time to read the Teacher’s Manual (wish I could say the same for journalists) which was created by academics and teachers. I am merely the editor!

Regards,

Vicki Harding, NSW

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/comment-page-1/#comment-1468 Bill Muehlenberg Wed, 08 Nov 2006 05:15:07 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/#comment-1468 Thanks Vicki But what you do say is nearly identical: “Use inclusive spoken and written language (e.g., ‘parent’ or carer’ rather than ‘mother’ and ‘father’; ‘dominant’ or ‘widespread’ rather than ‘normal’) whenever possible.” (Vicki Harding, editor, “Learn to Include Teacher’s Manuel,” 2005, p. 31). And the whole tenor of the book is to argue that there is no such thing as mum and dad, or family, anyway. For example, when you discuss one group activity, you propose this question for students: “What is a family?” You note in the Teaching Notes that one should “Accept all answers”. Another question listed is, “Who makes up a family?” In the Teaching Notes, teachers are encouraged to “Lead students to various configurations.” (Ibid., p. 8 ) All of which is an exercise in social engineering, seeking to convince very young children that there is no such thing as family or mum and dad. Instead, they can mean whatever anyone wants them to mean. In which case they mean exactly nothing. So while you may not have actually called for a ban of the terms, your entire crusade as featured here seems to work toward the same result. Regards Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks Vicki

But what you do say is nearly identical: “Use inclusive spoken and written language (e.g., ‘parent’ or carer’ rather than ‘mother’ and ‘father’; ‘dominant’ or ‘widespread’ rather than ‘normal’) whenever possible.” (Vicki Harding, editor, “Learn to Include Teacher’s Manuel,” 2005, p. 31).

And the whole tenor of the book is to argue that there is no such thing as mum and dad, or family, anyway. For example, when you discuss one group activity, you propose this question for students: “What is a family?” You note in the Teaching Notes that one should “Accept all answers”.

Another question listed is, “Who makes up a family?” In the Teaching Notes, teachers are encouraged to “Lead students to various configurations.” (Ibid., p. 8 )

All of which is an exercise in social engineering, seeking to convince very young children that there is no such thing as family or mum and dad. Instead, they can mean whatever anyone wants them to mean. In which case they mean exactly nothing.

So while you may not have actually called for a ban of the terms, your entire crusade as featured here seems to work toward the same result.

Regards
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

]]> By: Vicki Harding http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/comment-page-1/#comment-1467 Vicki Harding Wed, 08 Nov 2006 04:19:23 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/#comment-1467 Vicki Harding here. For the record I do not think that the words "mum" and "dad" should be banned. You are right - this is going too far - and it is not what I advocate. Surely if you can see that the media can be biased in some situations, you can understand that it can also get the story wrong in others. I appreciate the opportunity to set the record straight. Vicki Harding. NSW Vicki Harding here. For the record I do not think that the words “mum” and “dad” should be banned. You are right – this is going too far – and it is not what I advocate.

Surely if you can see that the media can be biased in some situations, you can understand that it can also get the story wrong in others.

I appreciate the opportunity to set the record straight.

Vicki Harding. NSW

]]> By: Harry Green http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/comment-page-1/#comment-420 Harry Green Fri, 14 Jul 2006 02:05:16 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/#comment-420 Please allow this American to make a few observations. We are having our own problems with liberals in American schools, but I have to say this one 'takes the cake'. Such ideas proposed by this Harding is utter nonsense. Similiar effort of liberals in American schools have driven many Christian to home school. Not sure that is the best approach. Likely we should stand up and say, "Corrupt your own children, if you must, but these are my children, back off!" Thanks for your indulgence. Harry Green Washington State, USA Please allow this American to make a few observations. We are having our own problems with liberals in American schools, but I have to say this one ‘takes the cake’. Such ideas proposed by this Harding is utter nonsense. Similiar effort of liberals in American schools have driven many Christian to home school. Not sure that is the best approach. Likely we should stand up and say, “Corrupt your own children, if you must, but these are my children, back off!” Thanks for your indulgence.

Harry Green
Washington State, USA

]]> By: Andrew Dinham http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/comment-page-1/#comment-348 Andrew Dinham Thu, 29 Jun 2006 13:49:40 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/06/05/mums-and-dads-to-be-banned/#comment-348 Indeed, we have a lot to worry about when the media and activists like Harding et.al. running around getting the good reports from the popular media. I'm only 21, but I hope that my (future) kids won't be subjected to school-based waffle that they can't call me dad or my (future) wife, mum. That's why we must stop that nonsense now. As you said around the middle of your piece, the media love to attack Christians. If there was ever a hunting season, and Christians were the target, it's now more than ever. It's open season on Christianity, by the media and other groups, such as the activist GLBTI community. Andrew Dinham, Hope Valley SA Indeed, we have a lot to worry about when the media and activists like Harding et.al. running around getting the good reports from the popular media. I’m only 21, but I hope that my (future) kids won’t be subjected to school-based waffle that they can’t call me dad or my (future) wife, mum. That’s why we must stop that nonsense now.

As you said around the middle of your piece, the media love to attack Christians. If there was ever a hunting season, and Christians were the target, it’s now more than ever. It’s open season on Christianity, by the media and other groups, such as the activist GLBTI community.

Andrew Dinham, Hope Valley SA

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