Comments on: Targeting the Toddlers http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/ Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day... Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:31:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Jonathan Sarfati http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/comment-page-1/#comment-3561 Jonathan Sarfati Tue, 09 Jan 2007 07:04:37 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/#comment-3561 The gay activists also justify this brainwashing by claiming that it will stop violence against gays. But gays are far more at risk from other gays! Even the homosexual activists David Island and Patrick Letellier noted in their book <i>Men Who Beat The Men Who Love Them</i>: <blockquote>The probability of violence occurring in a gay couple is mathematically double the probability of that in a heterosexual couple … we believe as many as 650,000 gay men may be victims of domestic violence each year in the United States.</blockquote> Also, the <i>Leader Messenger</i> (South Australia), 4 June 1997, p. 1, gave figures indicating that a massive 28 out of 168 reports of domestic violence involved homosexual couples, while only around 1 in 1,000 of all couples were homosexual. Jonathan Sarfati, Brisbane The gay activists also justify this brainwashing by claiming that it will stop violence against gays. But gays are far more at risk from other gays! Even the homosexual activists David Island and Patrick Letellier noted in their book Men Who Beat The Men Who Love Them:

The probability of violence occurring in a gay couple is mathematically double the probability of that in a heterosexual couple … we believe as many as 650,000 gay men may be victims of domestic violence each year in the United States.

Also, the Leader Messenger (South Australia), 4 June 1997, p. 1, gave figures indicating that a massive 28 out of 168 reports of domestic violence involved homosexual couples, while only around 1 in 1,000 of all couples were homosexual.

Jonathan Sarfati, Brisbane

]]> By: Trevor Faggotter http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/comment-page-1/#comment-480 Trevor Faggotter Sat, 29 Jul 2006 04:16:25 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/#comment-480 Hello Matt, Another site in Sydney, is really helpful. http://www.livingwaters.org.au/ Kind regards, Trevor Faggotter, Tasmania  Hello Matt,
Another site in Sydney, is really helpful.

http://www.livingwaters.org.au/

Kind regards,
Trevor Faggotter, Tasmania 

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/comment-page-1/#comment-283 Bill Muehlenberg Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:08:21 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/#comment-283 Thanks Matt First, I am glad you are part of the minority of homosexuals who are not promiscuous. But you make the exception, not the rule. Second, I am glad to hear you admit that some homosexuals can and do change. That is just my point. I never said it was easy to do so, or that all people can readily do it. And many simply do not want to change. But the fact that you and I agree that some can change gives lie to the falsehood so often presented by your side: “once gay, always gay”. The fact that some do change (and I personally know of many men and women who are former homosexuals and lesbians) is a telling point, and helps undo the spurious homosexual argument that they deserve special treatment because they are born that way and cannot help it. Change can be very difficult indeed, as with any unhealthy sexual addiction. It is a very hard process indeed, and many give up in the struggle. But real change is possible, and I am glad you admit to that. We would never expect to hear the claim that some blacks have become non-blacks, or ex-blacks. That is because blacks (or whites, or any racial characteristic) is innate, inborn and unchangeable. Once black, always black. But it is just false when homosexual activists try to compare their sexual preference with that of race. Homosexuality involves a fair degree of choice, as many of the more honest homosexuals admit. Sure there may be a combination of nature/nurture, but nurture plays a large, if not dominant, role. I hear so often from my homosexual contacts how an absent or weak father was part of their upbringing. Or an abusive home life. Environment plays a real part in how people go on to experience their sexuality. It is not the only factor, but an important one. So thank you for making your concession. It clears up a lot of ground. It is one thing for blacks who cannot help their skin colour to complain about past discrimination and injustices. It is quite another thing when people embrace a sexual lifestyle, and then complain about discrimination. Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks Matt

First, I am glad you are part of the minority of homosexuals who are not promiscuous. But you make the exception, not the rule.

Second, I am glad to hear you admit that some homosexuals can and do change. That is just my point. I never said it was easy to do so, or that all people can readily do it. And many simply do not want to change. But the fact that you and I agree that some can change gives lie to the falsehood so often presented by your side: “once gay, always gay”. The fact that some do change (and I personally know of many men and women who are former homosexuals and lesbians) is a telling point, and helps undo the spurious homosexual argument that they deserve special treatment because they are born that way and cannot help it.

Change can be very difficult indeed, as with any unhealthy sexual addiction. It is a very hard process indeed, and many give up in the struggle. But real change is possible, and I am glad you admit to that. We would never expect to hear the claim that some blacks have become non-blacks, or ex-blacks. That is because blacks (or whites, or any racial characteristic) is innate, inborn and unchangeable. Once black, always black.

But it is just false when homosexual activists try to compare their sexual preference with that of race. Homosexuality involves a fair degree of choice, as many of the more honest homosexuals admit. Sure there may be a combination of nature/nurture, but nurture plays a large, if not dominant, role.

I hear so often from my homosexual contacts how an absent or weak father was part of their upbringing. Or an abusive home life. Environment plays a real part in how people go on to experience their sexuality. It is not the only factor, but an important one.

So thank you for making your concession. It clears up a lot of ground. It is one thing for blacks who cannot help their skin colour to complain about past discrimination and injustices. It is quite another thing when people embrace a sexual lifestyle, and then complain about discrimination.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

]]> By: Matt Page http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/comment-page-1/#comment-181 Matt Page Sun, 11 Jun 2006 02:10:35 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/#comment-181 Thanks Bill I read Robert Spitzer's most recent study conducted on ex-gays and it looks like it has been designed much better than previous ones. But, I still am only convinced that SOME homosexuals are able to change their sexual orientation, and the finding that 200 people (who were primarily Protestant, and many already married to women at the time of the study) self-reported that they were able to change doesnt really convince, nor should it convince, such a substantial amount of people, that all homosexual people are able to change their sexual orientation. Best wishes from one of those gays who has never engaged in the promiscuous party gay lifestyle, and never wants to end his already 2 1/2 year relationship with his boyfriend. Matt Page, Eltham, Victoria Thanks Bill
I read Robert Spitzer’s most recent study conducted on ex-gays and it looks like it has been designed much better than previous ones.
But, I still am only convinced that SOME homosexuals are able to change their sexual orientation, and the finding that 200 people (who were primarily Protestant, and many already married to women at the time of the study) self-reported that they were able to change doesnt really convince, nor should it convince, such a substantial amount of people, that all homosexual people are able to change their sexual orientation.
Best wishes from one of those gays who has never engaged in the promiscuous party gay lifestyle, and never wants to end his already 2 1/2 year relationship with his boyfriend.
Matt Page, Eltham, Victoria

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/comment-page-1/#comment-175 Bill Muehlenberg Thu, 08 Jun 2006 02:15:06 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/#comment-175 Thanks Matt If you are indeed serious, and not just asking a rhetorical question, then yes, it is quite easy to steer you in the right direction. Websites are probably easiest. So here are just two of many around. They contain studies as well as stories. You will find much here if you are genuine in your search. http://www.pfox.org/ http://www.narth.com/ Regards Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks Matt
If you are indeed serious, and not just asking a rhetorical question, then yes, it is quite easy to steer you in the right direction. Websites are probably easiest. So here are just two of many around. They contain studies as well as stories. You will find much here if you are genuine in your search.

http://www.pfox.org/
http://www.narth.com/

Regards
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

]]> By: Matt Page http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/comment-page-1/#comment-164 Matt Page Mon, 05 Jun 2006 05:23:02 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/#comment-164 Hi Bill, I was wondering if you could point out a list of articles about reparative therapy - actual, verified studies that show that homosexuals can change their orientation. Beacuse as a psychology student who has done a number of courses in research methods, i've been told that you can never trust studies which just rely on self-reports by 'ex-gays', and more objective measures are needed before any claim can be made in regards to whether gay people can change. Also, as a result of reading your articles in the Australian Family Association website, i have developed a bit of sadness and depression because i am gay and dont feel that i can change. Could you suggest any counselling for me to help me not be so depressed about the claims that you make. Thank you Matt Page Hi Bill,
I was wondering if you could point out a list of articles about reparative therapy – actual, verified studies that show that homosexuals can change their orientation. Beacuse as a psychology student who has done a number of courses in research methods, i’ve been told that you can never trust studies which just rely on self-reports by ‘ex-gays’, and more objective measures are needed before any claim can be made in regards to whether gay people can change.
Also, as a result of reading your articles in the Australian Family Association website, i have developed a bit of sadness and depression because i am gay and dont feel that i can change. Could you suggest any counselling for me to help me not be so depressed about the claims that you make.
Thank you

Matt Page

]]> By: Jessica Magno http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/comment-page-1/#comment-156 Jessica Magno Thu, 01 Jun 2006 01:54:17 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/#comment-156 I was a child carer from 1998-2004, and I have become increasingly dismayed by the way the child care industry attempts to "foster" children's beliefs and values in child care / pre-school settings with the aim of becoming all inclusive to every minority group in Australia. In Tafes and Universities across this country child carers and early childhood professionals are being sent out in to the work-force with the message to children that the Australia we live in doesn't believe in boys being boys and girls being girls. Families consisting of mum, dad and children are increasingly undervalued for the more "trendy, modern lifestyles" of homosexual couples with children, and that Christianity deserves less regard than celebrating Ramadan or teaching children to make a spell and ride a broomstick! We are giving way too many choices to children who are under 5 years old - they are being given methods and tools to "have dominion on this earth" in totally immoral and unnatural ways. I totally agree with you Bill, our children are becoming pawns in a war for social relevancy and political correctness. Jessica Magno, Narre Warren, Victoria  I was a child carer from 1998-2004, and I have become increasingly dismayed by the way the child care industry attempts to “foster” children’s beliefs and values in child care / pre-school settings with the aim of becoming
all inclusive to every minority group in Australia.
In Tafes and Universities across this country child carers and early childhood professionals are being sent out in to the work-force with the message to children that the Australia we live in doesn’t believe in boys being boys and girls being girls. Families consisting of mum, dad and children are increasingly undervalued for the more “trendy, modern lifestyles” of homosexual couples with children, and that Christianity deserves less regard than celebrating Ramadan or teaching children to make a spell and ride a broomstick!
We are giving way too many choices to children who are under 5 years old – they are being given methods and tools to “have dominion on this earth” in totally immoral and unnatural ways. I totally agree with you Bill, our children are becoming pawns in a war for social relevancy and political correctness.

Jessica Magno, Narre Warren, Victoria 

]]> By: Jessie Ho http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/comment-page-1/#comment-153 Jessie Ho Wed, 31 May 2006 13:52:40 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/#comment-153 It is a sorry state of affairs to see the so-called Greens that supposedly promote healthy lifestyles and the environment be so misguided. Sam Bryne and Lee Rhiannon need to ask themselves where are their morals and responsibilities for future generations. Imagine a whole generation of kids with two mums or two dads in defacto relationships promoting same-sex relationships. These kids will be utterly confused with no identity and inability to adjust in life. No wonder dpression and suicide is on the rise because they have lost their sense of direction when their parents are misguided. Thanks Bill for your voice. Jessie Ho It is a sorry state of affairs to see the so-called Greens that supposedly promote healthy lifestyles and the environment be so misguided. Sam Bryne and Lee Rhiannon need to ask themselves where are their morals and responsibilities for future generations. Imagine a whole generation of kids with two mums or two dads in defacto relationships promoting same-sex relationships. These kids will be utterly confused with no identity and inability to adjust in life. No wonder dpression and suicide is on the rise because they have lost their sense of direction when their parents are misguided. Thanks Bill for your voice.

Jessie Ho

]]> By: Stan Fishley http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/comment-page-1/#comment-151 Stan Fishley Wed, 31 May 2006 04:51:30 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/#comment-151 The Greens masquarade as conservationists. However one could be forgiven for thinking that their primary agenda is social engineering . The life style of Greens promote "healthy attitudes to homosexuality"'. which are in reality a sickness unto death. For instance note the suicide and depression levels of homosexuals as well as the sexually transmitted disease rates. Support the promotion of homosexual families in preschools and become part of the loopy lesbian left. Stan Fishley, Melbourne  The Greens masquarade as conservationists. However one could be forgiven for thinking that their primary agenda is social engineering . The life style of Greens promote “healthy attitudes to homosexuality”‘. which are in reality a sickness unto death. For instance note the suicide and depression levels of homosexuals as well as the sexually transmitted disease rates.
Support the promotion of homosexual families in preschools and become part of the loopy lesbian left.
Stan Fishley, Melbourne 

]]> By: Bill Muehlenberg http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/comment-page-1/#comment-150 Bill Muehlenberg Tue, 30 May 2006 23:03:03 +0000 http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/05/29/targetting-the-toddlers/#comment-150 Thanks Michael and Ian Yes the many health risks alone should give us all pause for concern. Of course many studies over the years have demonstrated the high rate of unhealthy practices, the numerous sexual partners, and so on. One older classic study is Alan Bell and Martin Weinberg, Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1978). Indeed, leading medical journals such as The Lancet, The Journal of the American Medical Association, and The British Medical Journal (to name but a few) have all documented just how unhealthy and dangerous homosexual practices can be. For up to date Australian studies on this matter, the National Centre in HIV Social Reseach has many reports from the leading capital cities in Australia as to sexual practices, number of partners, dangerous behaviours, and so on. Given the very real health risks this lifestyle is associated with, it is certainly irresponsible to be promoting it to our children (and adults as well for that matter). Should we tell our toddlers about the validity of smoking as an alternative lifestyle as well? Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch Thanks Michael and Ian

Yes the many health risks alone should give us all pause for concern. Of course many studies over the years have demonstrated the high rate of unhealthy practices, the numerous sexual partners, and so on. One older classic study is Alan Bell and Martin Weinberg, Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1978).

Indeed, leading medical journals such as The Lancet, The Journal of the American Medical Association, and The British Medical Journal (to name but a few) have all documented just how unhealthy and dangerous homosexual practices can be.

For up to date Australian studies on this matter, the National Centre in HIV Social Reseach has many reports from the leading capital cities in Australia as to sexual practices, number of partners, dangerous behaviours, and so on.

Given the very real health risks this lifestyle is associated with, it is certainly irresponsible to be promoting it to our children (and adults as well for that matter). Should we tell our toddlers about the validity of smoking as an alternative lifestyle as well?

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

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